Hooo Boy. Wingnut Poll or Not?

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Re: Re: Re: Hooo Boy. Wingnut Poll or Not?

Post by racehorse » 03-23-2010 03:44 PM

Rombaldi wrote: that Shrub started for profit...


Even Tony Blair and Gordon Brown both deny that and they certainly can not be accused of being Conservatives or natural allies of the Republicans in this country.
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Post by racehorse » 03-23-2010 03:48 PM

Bobbi Snow wrote: There are good people of all faiths; it's only the radicals who commit the atrocities everyone should condemn.


Well said, Bobbi Snow. :)
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Post by HB3 » 03-23-2010 03:58 PM

Sorry, I don't think the facts support that position. Follow the news in Europe, where the situation is coming to a head much more rapidly. The Europeans are less and less capable of sustaining what I would call self-serving "higher perspectives" and more and more being forced into the messy position of dealing with the situation as it actually is. Of course, if they hadn't had the luxury of indulging in such fantasies to begin with, the situation wouldn't have developed to its present degree.

We've really lost the knowledge of our ancestors. I'll recommend Burke's "Reflections on the Revolution in France" again.

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Post by HB3 » 03-23-2010 04:03 PM

racehorse wrote: Well said, Bobbi Snow. :)


Well, it sure sounds good, doesn't it?

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Post by HB3 » 03-23-2010 04:50 PM

This is pretty good:
As it’s happening, incremental decline is extremely seductive. Great powers aren’t Chad or Rwanda, where you’re sliding from the Dump category to the Even Crummier Dump category. Take a city like Vienna. Once upon a time it was an imperial capital. The empire busted up, but the capital still had magnificent architecture, handsome palaces, treasure houses of great art, a world-class orchestra, fabulous restaurants . . . who wouldn’t enjoy such “decline”? You benefit from all the accumulated capital of the past without being troubled by any of the tedious responsibilities. Have another coffee and a piece of strudel and watch the world go by. To be sure, everything new — or, at any rate, everything new that works — is invented and made elsewhere. But genteel decline from the heights can be eminently civilized, especially to those of a leftish bent. Francophile Americans passing through bucolic villages with their charmingly state-regulated charcuteries and farmland wholly subsidized by the European Union’s Common Agricultural Policy can be forgiven for wondering whether global hegemony is all it’s cracked up to be.

Whether decline will seem quite so bucolic viewed from a Jersey strip mall rather than the Dordogne remains to be seen.
http://article.nationalreview.com/42899 ... eyn?page=2

Regardless of what you think of the National Review, this guy's writing has always been pretty solid.

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Post by Linnea » 03-23-2010 05:11 PM

...from Steyn's article:
American exceptionalism would have to be awfully exceptional to suffer a similar expansion of government and not witness, in enough of the populace, the same descent into dependency and fatalism.
We are that exceptional. Our current struggle is mostly with corporatism, not socialism.

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Post by Linnea » 03-23-2010 05:18 PM

Originally posted by Live365
What percentage of Democrats still believe September 11th was an inside job and the government steered the hurricane into New Orleans?!

I mean, if you want to compare wing-nuts to wing-nuts........
Interesting, Live365. I believe many of the tea party people (whether or not 'Republicans') do not believe the government version of 9-11. They would also be suspicious of the neglect by the US Army Corps of Engineers of the sea walls surrounding New Orleans. Many in the group come from the 'Patriot Movement' in the US. They hate the government, period.

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Post by OMG » 03-23-2010 05:59 PM

RH, Live. Was there what some might consider over-the-top opinions of the previous Prez? Yup. But did you ever hear it on the House floor like we heard this weekend. Repub called the other side as Soviet Commies. I read that tone on blogs about the previous Prez but never heard it on the House floor.

Again the stuff you guys mentioned were in blogs, might have a passing saying in C2C, but you don't hear that sort of stuff on a constant bases in the mainstream like you do this right wing stuff. Stuff like the GW family history in Germany, I heard it first and only time in passing at C2C, and it was mentioned here. Every over-the-top thing from this current Prez that is mentioned on C2C or repeated here, has had non-stop being talk about during Conserv radio shows and Faux programs. That's the difference. You can say Olbermann made a comparasion with GW and some horrible leaders from the past, but you can only pick maybe a single time he did it. Faux news seems to have a quota on it for this current prez, my gosh Glenn does it on a daily bases.

Saying both sides do it doesn't cut it with me, when the degrees of how it said is no where comparable. The Repub party isn't just ignoring it like they did in the past, but actually flaming these things.

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Post by racehorse » 03-23-2010 06:57 PM

Again, OMG, Glenn Beck is not a Republican and does not speak for the Republican party. Neither does the "Tea Party" movement which Beck promotes. In fact, while some like Sarah Palin want the "Tea Party" to take over the GOP, that will never happen and these often angry citizens may field their own candidates either separately or in cooperation with the Libertarians. That will delight Democrats and harm the GOP in the short term but not for long, as the party would quickly revert to it's Historical Center-Right perspectives without having to appease these disgruntled Americans and likely once again proudly assume it's traditional role of the party most Americans routinely trust to govern them wisely.

I feel President George W. Bush has been treated far more severely, unfairly, and abusively than President Barack Obama ever has been or any other American President in the last few decades for that matter. "Progressive" organizations like Moveon.org even posted web videos depicting him as Adolf Hitler and he was slurred on some of their their web sites as a "Fascist" and "warmonger"on numerous occasions and a few even said Bush and/or Cheney were behind the 9-11 events.

Even today, there are those (including some of the more extreme Democratic officials in government) that advocate he should be arrested and tried for war crimes, believe he "stole" both the 2000 and 2004 elections, was criminally negligent over the events of Katrina or worse planned it , and deserved to have been impeached and removed from office for these alleged misdeeds. I consider all those things truly "wingnut" beliefs!

While some Republicans may hold "wingnut" positions (especially many who also consider themselves "Tea Party" members), Democrats have lots of "wingnuts", too!
Last edited by racehorse on 03-23-2010 07:51 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Live365 » 03-23-2010 07:02 PM

OMG wrote: Again the stuff you guys mentioned were in blogs, might have a passing saying in C2C, but you don't hear that sort of stuff on a constant bases in the mainstream like you do this right wing stuff.


OMG, I can't fully process yer post just now, nor Race's, nor Linnea's, nor HB3's. I took the day off to Spring-clean -- does anyone have sympathy that this is the one of the first times we've seen above 50o since October? Or the third day in a row we've seen sun? -- and I'm worse off now than I was when I began. But off the cuff, let me say that it was all over the Ship, Rosie on the View, Michael Moore made an entire movie about it, Alex Jones made himself a YouTube sensation over it. That kind of stuff was EVERYWHERE back in the day. All I think some of us are saying, is that wing-nuts are wing-nuts. You can't condemn one without addressing the other.

To be continued, I hope!
Did you ever stop to think, and then forget to start again?

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Post by racehorse » 03-23-2010 07:12 PM

Live365 wrote: All I think some of us are saying, is that wing-nuts are wing-nuts. You can't condemn one without addressing the other.


Precisely, Live. :)
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Post by Raggedyann » 03-23-2010 07:49 PM

RH...the fact is that Bush started a war using a pack of lies to convince the world that the invasion of Iraq was justified. It was not and it will go down in history as the most atrocious war America has ever embarked upon. Tiresome to keep reiterating this crap I know, but it is what it is.

Bush also walked out the door and left the U.S. and to some degree, much of the world, in an economic mess because he failed to legislate regulations of Wall Street, the big banks and insurance companies when it was evident that an economic crash was imminent. He allowed these corporations to steal from their fellow citizens under the philosophy of "free enterprise". This was not free enterprise in the true meaning of capitalism. It was robbery, strategized and carried out at the highest levels. Bush sat back and let his henchmen run the show, as he was too lazy or too stupid to lead.

The "right" can defend Bush til the cows come home, but the facts are the facts and the whole world knows them.

I do not understand why you, an intelligent and dear gentleman, would continue to defend a man who could not walk a mile in your shoes. :)

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Post by racehorse » 03-23-2010 08:00 PM

Hi Raggedyann. :)

Although I respect it, I simply disagree with your point of view on these topics. My perspectives on all of this are well documented on this forum so I will not repeat it.

History will judge to the degree that either of us are correct in our assessments.

I have to watch "Lost" now. It will be great tonight. ;)
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Post by Raggedyann » 03-23-2010 08:21 PM

Well, he was the one in office and we all witnessed it all go down and we are still living with the fall out, so I hardly think it is just my point of view.

Enjoy "Lost" matey. ;)

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Post by Psychicwolf » 03-23-2010 08:32 PM

Most of these "polls" can be made to show anything. I am no mathematician but I once sat through a rubber chicken dinner with a local Dem pollster as a seat partner who was a PhD statistician. While most of his explanation was over my head, the gist of the conversation was "how" the questions are asked are more important than the results. The results are important because you can "frame" public opinion with those results. "Framing" is very important in political campaigns.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_(social_sciences)

I don't know who commisioned the poll. But I think you can probably expect to see the Dems begin to paint the GOP with the Teabagger paint brush. ;)
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