Uganda Smacks Obama?

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Uganda Smacks Obama?

Post by kbot » 02-24-2014 12:02 PM

After reading this, I thought about Obama's full-tilt press with Russia concerning that country's anti-gay policies in the weeks leading to the Olympics. At the time I thought - "How would Americans feel if Putin told us how we should live our lives?", or, for that matter, Mexico, China, England or any other country......

Putting the question of "Right"/ "Wrong" behavior ("being gay", or, "prosecuting those who are") aside for a moment - how would we feel if another country came in - wagging it's finger at us, telling us how we should act? And then, sending "delegates" to us to admonish us in front of the world........????

And, will Obama send "delegates" to Uganda as he did with Russia?

Or, even, "should he"?

How will Hollywood react to this challenge? Will they forgo their entertainment contracts?

Quote:

“There’s now an attempt at social imperialism, to impose social values. We’re sorry to see that you (the West) live the way you live but we keep quiet about it,” he said.

Ugandan president signs anti-gay bill, defying the West

ENTEBBE, Uganda (Reuters) – Uganda’s president signed a law imposing harsh penalties for homosexuality on Monday, defying protests from rights groups, criticism from Western donors and a U.S. warning that it will complicate relations.

The new bill strengthened existing punishments for anyone caught having gay sex, imposing jail terms of up to life for “aggravated homosexuality” – including sex with a minor or while HIV positive.

It criminalised lesbianism for the first time and made it a crime to help individuals engage in homosexual acts. Gay rights activists in Uganda said they planned a legal challenge.

Ugandan officials broke into loud applause as President Yoweri Museveni put his signature to the document in front of foreign journalists at his State House outside the capital.

“There’s now an attempt at social imperialism, to impose social values. We’re sorry to see that you (the West) live the way you live but we keep quiet about it,” he said.

The legislation exposes the wide gulf between the continent’s often culturally conservative administrations and many of the foreign donor states that support them. Gambia’s President Yahya Jammeh last week called homosexuals “vermin”.

“I feel sick. The degrading words the president has used … my country is in a state of insanity right now,” said Ugandan gay activist Kasha Nabagesera, adding the gay community expected to challenge the bill in the courts.

Gay and lesbian organisations fear the bill will encourage other governments to strengthen penalties, increase harassment, discourage people from taking HIV tests and make it impossible to live an openly gay life.

“Clawing back these basic rights and criminalising the expression of divergent views doesn’t bode well for anyone in Uganda,” said Maria Burnett of Human Rights Watch.

“UN-AFRICAN”

Homosexuality is taboo in almost all African countries and illegal in 37 – including Uganda, where rights groups say gay people have long risked jail. Few Africans are openly gay, as they fear violence, imprisonment and loss of their jobs.

The law comes a week after U.S. President Barack Obama said the legislation would be “a step backward for all Ugandans” and warned it would complicate relations.

A senior Obama administration official had said the United States would review relations with Uganda if the law was enacted. Washington is one of Uganda’s largest donors, sending more than $400 million a year.

British Foreign Secretary William Hague said on Monday London questioned the bill’s compatibility with the Ugandan constitution and international treaty obligations. But he made no mention of aid cuts from Britain, another big donor.

Uganda is a key Western ally in the fight against Islamic extremism in Somalia, where Ugandan troops form the backbone of the African Union peacekeeping force battling al Qaeda-aligned militants.

Its government also expects to pump oil for the first time in 2016 and hopes the inflow of petrodollars will cut its dependence on foreign aid.

“He knows that while the West cares about homosexuality, it’s not to such an extent that they would severely punish a good ally,” said Ugandan political analyst Angelo Izama.

A Ugandan government spokesman said Museveni had taken the unusual step of signing the bill in public to “demonstrate Uganda’s independence in the face of Western pressure”.

While African leaders broadly court Western donors with promises to tackle human rights abuses, many have won popular support by describing homosexuality as “un-African” behaviour.

The Uganda’s move should please conservative voters ahead of presidential elections scheduled for 2016.

“We don’t like (homosexuality) in our culture,” said motor-bike taxi driver Ronald Kibabu. “That can keep him as president. The election is coming.”

Museveni said last week he was putting the bill on hold to give scientists a chance to prove that homosexuality could be triggered by genes and was not a “lifestyle choice”. They found no such evidence, Museveni said.

In neighbouring Kenya, a group of MPs has called for the enforcement of existing anti-gay laws that have been largely ignored. Some Kenyans praised Uganda’s actions.

http://www.euronews.com/newswires/23675 ... -gay-bill/
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Post by Fan » 02-24-2014 02:19 PM

Russia is less anti-gay than the USA. The press is lying as usual, it is just a smear campaign to piss off the Russkies.

Very very thorough in-depth analysis of the reality of this BS http://02varvara.wordpress.com/tag/white-paper/

But yeah, uganda. Not sure what the point is, but it is not done just for fun. It is leverage.
Excerpts from the White Paper:

The law never mentions or uses the word gay, lesbian, homosexual, or any other LGBT identifier
The law focuses on children; its title is “On Protections of Minors from Propaganda of Non-Traditional Sexual Relations”. The messaging and strategy to bring the ban on propaganda from the law of several regions to national laws is part of a larger family values push, based on the successful anti-same sex marriage push in the USA
Statistically, you’re far more likely to be the victim of an anti-LGBT hate crime in the USA than in Russia
In Russia, your boss can’t fire you from your job for being an LGBT person, in the USA, they can
Since 1993, gay sex is legal in Russia; in 12 US states, gay sex is a crime
US President Obama said, “I have no patience for countries that try to treat gays or lesbians or transgender persons in ways that intimidate them or are harmful to them”. His policies prove he has nothing but patience
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Post by kbot » 02-24-2014 03:25 PM

Interesting article - thanks.

So, I guess the point is, no Snowden, no gripe with Uganda.

I wonder how these constituents of the Progressive Left would feel knowing that they've been used as a political tool by Obama?

Will MSNBC report it as such?

Tend to doubt it............
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Post by Fan » 02-24-2014 03:28 PM

I wonder how these constituents of the Progressive Left would feel knowing that they've been used as a political tool by Obama?


They would never bother to find out one way or another, because they don't actually care. It is just another cause celebre.
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Post by kbot » 02-25-2014 06:53 AM

Did see on MSNBC a blurb crawl across the bottom of the screen and then Jay Carney talking at the press conference. But, I want to know what this administration is going to do - a la the Olympics and sending reps to Uganda as they did with Russia.

I would expect that this administrgation would do at least the same as with Russia, but should do more since with Uganda being gay is now TOTALLY ILLEGAL - much more severe than with Russia.

And, while the media here is focusing on Gov Brewer in Arizona - even the GOP state senators are running from Brewer - I'm wondering where is that blanket coverage we were handed on the foreign front? The issue fizzled with Russia when the Olympics started and it became apparent that athletes weren't going to be mass-arrested and sent to Siberia. Yet, with Uganda which has much more repressive laws - even more so than Arizona, we get Jay Carney......
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Post by Fan » 02-25-2014 09:18 AM

who made it our job to protect gay rights worldwide? It is just being used as a cynical reason to do other things. We don't care about uganda unless we can get something from them, and maybe we can... we'll see how it shakes out.
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Post by kbot » 02-25-2014 11:03 AM

Fan wrote: who made it our job to protect ......... rights worldwide?


Exactly the point.

Who made it "our job" to run around the world and point out other country's failures (in our view).

Back to my original question - how would WE feel if another country pointed out (in THEIR view), our perceived failures and intentionally sent "representatives" to publicly scold us?

Forget for a moment the right or wrong of the issue. At some point, people around the world are going to get aggravated with us telling them what horrible people they are when we do a pretty good job of it ourselves......
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Post by voguy » 02-25-2014 05:21 PM

Perhaps our "comfort levels" with sexuality and customs conflict and we feel it necessary to impose our will over others?
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Post by Fan » 02-25-2014 06:00 PM

kbot wrote: Forget for a moment the right or wrong of the issue. At some point, people around the world are going to get aggravated with us telling them what horrible people they are when we do a pretty good job of it ourselves......


Trust me, that happened long ago :) That is why there is such a large armed forces and spy agencies.
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Post by Fan » 02-25-2014 06:03 PM

voguy wrote: Perhaps our "comfort levels" with sexuality and customs conflict and we feel it necessary to impose our will over others?
Except that homophobia is more widespread in the USA than most other countries. It is a "do as I say not as I do" type of thing, as usual. We can have nukes, not you. We can ban the teaching of evolution, but you try it and we tell you that you are harming children. We yell about human rights abuses while torturing and renditioning and illegally jailing people with no trial or lawyer. It is pretty much the definition of insanity.
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Post by kbot » 02-25-2014 06:52 PM

Fan wrote: Trust me, that happened long ago :) That is why there is such a large armed forces and spy agencies.


I'm sure you're correct...... :D
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Post by kbot » 02-25-2014 06:56 PM

Fan wrote: Except that homophobia is more widespread in the USA than most other countries. It is a "do as I say not as I do" type of thing, as usual. We can have nukes, not you. We can ban the teaching of evolution, but you try it and we tell you that you are harming children. We yell about human rights abuses while torturing and renditioning and illegally jailing people with no trial or lawyer. It is pretty much the definition of insanity.


We do do insanity well here in this country. It's at times like thees that I like to re-read Solzenhystyn and his recounting his times in the Russian camps and then I think "Yeah, we're almost there.....". The government trying to get us to turn-in our neighbors and others who are "suspicious". The new normal of 24/7/365 surveillance. The "us" against "them" mindset being blasted at us from the MSM.
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Post by Fan » 02-25-2014 06:58 PM

kbot wrote: We do do insanity well here in this country. It's at times like thees that I like to re-read Solzenhystyn and his recounting his times in the Russian camps and then I think "Yeah, we're almost there.....". The government trying to get us to turn-in our neighbors and others who are "suspicious". The new normal of 24/7/365 surveillance. The "us" against "them" mindset being blasted at us from the MSM.



to whit http://www.dhs.gov/if-you-see-something-say-something
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Post by Raggedyann » 02-25-2014 07:04 PM

When the citizens of other countries protest for democracy and against corruption, the U.S. righteously supports them. But when people protest in the U.S. for the same reasons, they are beaten, sprayed, jailed and laughed off because they're just filthy hippies.
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Post by kbot » 02-25-2014 07:08 PM



Where have I seen this before?


Oh yeah..........


Fascinating paper, btw.


Snippet:

In gathering this precious information, no means were considered too extreme. Penetrating the ranks of the nationalist undergrounds was a formidable task given their cohesion, brutality, organizational structure, and methods—which often mirrored those of the NKVD—and a supportive rural population that alerted them in advance to the approach of strangers to the villages. Hence relatives of known guerillas and adolescent children were considered particularly valuable sources.72 If Khrushchev was right to remind his subordinates that in the village everybody knows everything about everyone (“It is inconceivable that a peasant does not know the bandits in his midst. If a goose is missing, a peasant knows who stole it, whether it was Ivan or Petro who did it, just as he knows who steals his apples or honey. They know each other and they will tell you”),73 then children were fountains of knowledge on the identity and whereabouts of the guerrillas.

http://www.staff.amu.edu.pl/~ewa/Weiner ... 201957.pdf
What the hell are we fighting for? Ah, just surrender and it won't hurt at all. You just got time to say your prayers. Yeah, while you're waiting for the hammer to fall. (Brian May of Queen)

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