Left, or Right. What direction will America turn next

[USSGoblin]

>>The day after the election, I want to see an electoral battlefield littered with defeated Republicans, their ranks demoralized, their treasury in heavy debt, and no real leadership to take the helm. I want a vacuum so complete that a bloody leadership battle between the neocons, theocons, and the corporate cons leaves the GOP fractured and ill-equipped to stymie the progressive agenda for generations to come.<<

Rombaldi I totally agree with your sig tag. I did not read it all before, The GO-Piggy got what they earned. The Republicans shifted to the left, compromised on what the party stood for in 1980, and in 1994. I do not want the Republicans to shift left, or compromise the Conservative base just to grab seats, cling to power. It is time to Reaffirm the right wing. Yes, what Rush stands for. After all, if your right and you think America is mostly left of center, then you have nothing to worry about. We don't need R.I.N.O.s in the GO-Piggy Party. You seem to fear the Right Wingers, if they are bad as you claim, then America should never vote them in. But, Liberals get steamed when "We the People" reject leftists policies, Prop 8 in California, We the people spoke, the liberals keep throwing tantrums over it. We will see, will the voters go left, or right come 2010. Or, is it over for the GO-Piggy's like you wish it is. Will America rebel against the liberal politicians, or, will they bring in the Al Frankens, and just go all out with a one party rule. I do not think they will, i think they will move right.

[Kaztronic]

That is one creepy picture & I cannot help but spend a moment thinking about just how much that flag absolutely disgusts me.

[USSGoblin]

That is one creepy picture & I cannot help but spend a moment thinking about just how much that flag absolutely disgusts me.

That is because many think the flag is racist, but the flag itself is not. It depends on who is flying it, and why. Most that fly it are sending a message that they are a rebel, against the establishment. The people that say you should live a certain way, dress a certain way, act a certain way. there is a African American i know, in his garage, he has a working replica of the General lee, Dukes of Hazard car. he has rebel flags all over in many sizes. He says it is a shame that so many have worked to attach one meaning to the rebel flag, and not understand, and realize what the true meaning is. It is simple, Rebel. The Rebel flag is flown at NASCAR races, nobody there thinks the person flying it is automatically a racist. Also, that flag is part of American history. there are several African American groups that Fly the Rebel Flag, they fly it with pride, it would be a shame if it was taken away from them.

It is like the term UFO, now most think, and equate UFO with alien space craft. So now, if you say UFO and you seen one, it drifts into the crack pot realm. UFO is simple, an object in the sky that can't be identified. If it was an alien spacecraft, then it would be an IFO, identified Flying object.

I also know a guy who has mounted on his wall, a copy of Mein Kampf. He is a Jew, his grandfather died in the war in Germany, murdered. he says that book is important to him, it reminds him that evil, is a human quality, it is not something that resides only in the super natural world. He says it would be a crime to ban Mein Kampf. Mounted next to it is the Nazi Flag, and he has a German helmet and an SS uniform. All from WWII Nazi Germany. His family does not like he has it displayed, but that is the point. Never forget or it will return in force. Take a symbol, often it stands for something bad, use it as a reminder, make it stand for hope, for something good. No, it is not a proper symbl for everyone, but it should not be erased and then placed in front of the eyes of no one.

[eagle]

Liberals took over the Democratic Party and the conservatives took over the Republican Party and now they are both ruined. That's one reason why I don't belong to either.

[Kaztronic]

I'm certainly not going to suggest, now or ever, that anyone be prevented from flying the Confederate flag - or any other for that matter. I would be right out there at the front of the line fighting any attempt to censor the use of the Confederate Flag. I also appreciate that the flag has different meanings for different people - but not for me.

I assume that you also understand that for a great many Americans that flag represents some pretty vile stuff, and that there are plenty of Americans who simply do not look upon that filthy rag called a flag (my opinion) with any type of admiration.

[Lastmartian]

... Take a symbol, often it stands for something bad, use it as a reminder, make it stand for hope, for something good. No, it is not a proper symbl for everyone, but it should not be erased and then placed in front of the eyes of no one.

Symbols, once they are drenched in blood, cannot be redeemed.

I do agree that they shouldn't be erased though, for they have a certain value as a reminder for those who reflect on history, as well as for those who don't.

[USSGoblin]

Liberals took over the Democratic Party and the conservatives took over the Republican Party and now they are both ruined. That's one reason why I don't belong to either.

Your wrong, the Republican party was taken over by the moderates, that is why they self destructed. george W Bush was a moderate, him, and his father were to the Left of Ronald Reagan. R.I.N.O.s have been a poison pill for the GOP. McCain, the base was not impressed with him, and they never were, that is why he went and tapped Sarah Palin, and not Lieberman, like he wanted to do. It would have been worse if he picked another moderate like himself.

[USSGoblin]

Symbols, once they are drenched in blood, cannot be redeemed.

I do agree that they shouldn't be erased though, for they have a certain value as a reminder for those who reflect on history, as well as for those who don't.

H. K. Edgerton, an interesting man. he proudly flys the Confederate Flag, and often wears a Confederate uniform. he embraces history, he does not bury it. I met him once when I was in Texas.

[Kaztronic]

David Duke, an interesting & reprehensible man. He proudly flies the Confederate Flag, and is known for having often worn a uniform frequently associated with the Confederate Flag. He selectively embraces history. He buries African-Americans, Jews, and Homosexuals. I did not meet David Duke while I was in Texas learning to line dance at the Round-Up Saloon.

[racehorse]

The Confederate flag is a symbol of a treasonous illegal reprehensible regime that sought to displace the rightful government of the United States. Flying it in my mind is little different than flying a NAZI flag. Both should be and are protected under our laws and Constitution but that does not change the reality of the symbolism and ideology that those banners represent.

[Lastmartian]

H. K. Edgerton, an interesting man. he proudly flys the Confederate Flag, and often wears a Confederate uniform. he embraces history, he does not bury it. I met him once when I was in Texas.

I could draw several conclusions from Mr. Edgerton's picture, but I'd prefer to hear his explanation; maybe he has a good reason to wear rebel grey, or at least thinks he has. Otherwise I would wander into the assumption that he has gone mad, or has a very sardonic sense of humor.

[USSGoblin]

The Confederate flag is a symbol of a treasonous illegal reprehensible regime that sought to displace the rightful government of the United States. Flying it in my mind is little different than flying a NAZI flag. Both should be and are protected under our laws and Constitution but that does not change the reality of the symbolism and ideology that those banners represent.

So is the flag of the United States. The revolt against the British Empire was treasonous and illegal to the king. I am sure glad somebody decided to break the law and revolt. Both symbols, the Cross of Andrew on the rebel flag, and the Hindu cross on the Nazi flag were hijacked and used by Rogue states, in time, they may be hijacked back. Use of the swastika in Germany is now allowed when used by religious groups, which did use it before Germany did.

[USSGoblin]

David Duke, an interesting & reprehensible man. He proudly flies the Confederate Flag, and is known for having often worn a uniform frequently associated with the Confederate Flag. He selectively embraces history. He buries African-Americans, Jews, and Homosexuals. I did not meet David Duke while I was in Texas learning to line dance at the Round-Up Saloon.

and your point being?
I am making the point that racism has been attached to a flag that black Americans and others fly, not as a symbol of the racism that has been attached to it.

Duke is a racist, I am pointing out non racist use of the rebel flag, the fact that some view the rebel flag, and its use as a symbol of oppression and racism is already a well known view, and the majority of those that do fly the rebel flag are not racist. nor do I get the relevance of you not meeting a person. Other than sarcasm.

However, 2/3 of the Black American population do not like that flag at all.

[racehorse]

So is the flag of the United States. The revolt against the British Empire was treasonous and illegal to the king.

As I stated Raymond, displaying the Confederate and NAZI flags is and should be protected under our Constitution. The reprehensible symbolism and ideology which those flags represent is what troubles me most. As a loyal American, I do not support treasonous efforts to break away from our union and establish a new order or to overthrow, subdue it, or diminish it.

The comparison with Britain is not really relevant as History is always written by the winners and if Britain had prevailed and our efforts at forming a Republic had failed, our flag would indeed be considered a symbol of treason. Yet, It didn't and isn't! The philosophical foundation of our republic and the ideology it has always stood for also is very dissimilar to that of either the so called and self proclaimed illegal regime known as "The Confederate States of America" or National Socialist Germany.

[USSGoblin]

As I stated Raymond, displaying the Confederate and NAZI flags is and should be protected under our Constitution. The reprehensible symbolism and ideology which those flags represent is what troubles me most. As a loyal American, I do not support treasonous efforts to break away from our union and establish a new order or to overthrow, subdue it, or diminish it.

The comparison with Britain is not really relevant as History is always written by the winners and if Britain had prevailed and our efforts at forming a Republic had failed, our flag would indeed be considered a symbol of treason. Yet, It didn't and isn't! The philosophical foundation of our republic and the ideology it has always stood for also is very dissimilar to that of either the so called and self proclaimed illegal regime known as "The Confederate States of America" or National Socialist Germany.

That was not my intent of the comparison, but that all things are relative, many times it is not a simple yes or no. It depends on where, and when you are standing. But your wrong, some to view the American flag the same as people view the Nazi flag, again, it depends on where you are standing in the world. I even encountered hate for our flag here, my experience, George Noory shared my experience with the coast audience once, it was during an anti war rally that was going on when I got off the Bart train.