Interesting article, curious to see what people think about the whole ethanol thing.
Also, wanted to draw everyone's attention to the last sentence of the article. A bit of harsh rhetoric towards Russia?
**************************************************
SAO PAULO, Brazil — U.S. presidential hopeful Sen. John McCain supports ending subsidies for U.S. ethanol production and would back Brazil’s inclusion on an expanded United Nations Security Council, a Brazilian newspaper reported Sunday.
In comments published by the Estado de S. Paulo newspaper, McCain also said he would support Brazil’s addition to the Group of Eight industrialized nations and lauded the nation’s drive to find clean energy sources.
The United States has “committed a series of errors in not adopting a sustainable energy policy,” McCain was quoted as saying. “One of those is the subsidies for ethanol from corn.”
McCain blamed the price supports for “destroying the market” and “causing a serious problem with inflation.”
The Republican also blasted U.S. tariffs on Brazilian ethanol imports, saying that the Brazilian product made from sugarcane “is much more efficient than ethanol from corn.”
Critics of the U.S. subsidies say spurring the planting of corn for use in ethanol has added to a sharp spike in global food prices.
But White House economic advisers say corn-based ethanol is responsible for just 2 to 3 percent of the overall increase in food prices, which are up more than 40 percent this year over 2007.
According to Estado de S. Paulo’s report, McCain also said he would back the entry of Brazil and India into a larger G-8 and would favor removing Russia from the group.
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/06/15 ... r-ethanol/
McCain Calls for End to Corn Subsidies for Ethanol
Moderator: Super Moderators
McCain Calls for End to Corn Subsidies for Ethanol
"You'll get used to my babbling, all the others have." - Anna Madrigal from "Tales Of The City" by Armistead Maupin-
lazarus long
- Pirate
- Posts: 621
- Joined: 03-16-2008 10:51 PM
i don't understand the reasoning behind ethanol. there are people starving all over the world. are we so callous as to believe that our driving and vacations are more important than the lives of the poor? maybe we could skip the middle steps and just grind up the starving masses and turn them into fuel 
.
i heard recently about a innovation that really gives me hope: fuel made from THE KUDZU PLANT. i don't know if many of you know it, but the kudzu vine is rampant here in the southeast. they (the vines) cover thousands of acres and choke off all of the native flora. i've heard it referred to as "the vine that ate the south." it can grow up to a foot a day and was introduced (in part) to help fight soil erosion. now it's EVERYWHERE. if they can make a fuel from this stuff (and the preliminary reports indicate that they can), we might have a stop-gap measure until we can find a real solution.
.i heard recently about a innovation that really gives me hope: fuel made from THE KUDZU PLANT. i don't know if many of you know it, but the kudzu vine is rampant here in the southeast. they (the vines) cover thousands of acres and choke off all of the native flora. i've heard it referred to as "the vine that ate the south." it can grow up to a foot a day and was introduced (in part) to help fight soil erosion. now it's EVERYWHERE. if they can make a fuel from this stuff (and the preliminary reports indicate that they can), we might have a stop-gap measure until we can find a real solution.
I have to agree with you Lazarus about the ethanol. Fuel from food crops doesn't make sense to me in the long run. Food prices are skyrocketing world wide, a large part of the reason from what I have read are because of both ethanol and farm subsidies both here, and in Europe as well.
Any attempt to break free from our complete reliance on fossil fuels is certainly a good thing (I am a big supporter of building new nuclear power plants personally - I know that idea is not popular here, perhaps we can put up a thread to discuss it sometime when it becomes an issue in the election, as I'm sure it will). I am just not confident that ethanol is a solution at all, in fact it may just be causing more problems than it is solving.
Any attempt to break free from our complete reliance on fossil fuels is certainly a good thing (I am a big supporter of building new nuclear power plants personally - I know that idea is not popular here, perhaps we can put up a thread to discuss it sometime when it becomes an issue in the election, as I'm sure it will). I am just not confident that ethanol is a solution at all, in fact it may just be causing more problems than it is solving.
"You'll get used to my babbling, all the others have." - Anna Madrigal from "Tales Of The City" by Armistead Maupin
Kaztronic wrote: I am a big supporter of building new nuclear power plants
McCain wants nuclear power plants, so maybe he's your man?
The principle thing that demonstrates the stupidity of nuclear power is that no insurance company in the world will insure an American power plant. Nada. None. And they're the ones who know how to actually evaluate risk.
Iris wrote: McCain wants nuclear power plants, so maybe he's your man?
The principle thing that demonstrates the stupidity of nuclear power is that no insurance company in the world will insure an American power plant. Nada. None. And they're the ones who know how to actually evaluate risk.
No, McCain is not my man, and neither is Obama at this point.
My vote is in the undecided column, and the way I see it, is likely to remain in the undecided column until September at this rate.
I am so far less than thrilled with what both of these guys are saying right now. I agree with Obama about some things such as the Supreme Court ruling on the detainees at Gitmo, and am appalled at John McCain's respone thus far. On the issue of nukes, I am definitely in agreement with John McCain and waiting to hear more from Obama on this issue.
What I can tell you at this point is that my vote will not be cast based upon one issue, certainly not nuclear power alone. I weigh my decisions very carefully and will take the time I need to get comfortable with whatever candidate I think will do the best job as President.
Alternative energy is but one issue that will factor in to that choice.
Now, as far as nuclear power is concerned, I have to disagree with you, and take issue with the assertion that those of us who support the expanded use of this technology are putting forth opinions based upon "stupidity". Like you, we also consider the problem of global warming to be a critical problem - nuclear power is a potential solution, in the near term at least, and one worthy of discussion considering the impact that our current power plants are having on our environment.
Nuclear technology has come a long way since Chernobyl, and your point about insurance is somewhat misleading as nuclear power plants are covered by the Price-Anderson Act which takes care of the insurance needs of the industry. While the Price-Anderson Act is controversial, it renders the issue of insurance moot at this time.
Now, don't get me wrong, I think windmills, solar power, and to a lesser extent Hydro-power are great and worth expanding upon. But they will not generate enough power ultimately to power the increasing electricity needs of this nation - not even close. Furthermore, all are succeptible to inconsistent performance based upon weather conditions. The economics I am less than certain about.
So, you and I are both weighing risks here. A nuclear accident VS. the non-stop pumping of carbon in to our atmosphere.
Scary consequences for both scenarios.
This is probably the only instance where I have ever pointed to France as a nation to emulate. Most of their power is generated by Nuclear power plants. They are the worlds largest exporter of electricity, they also have much lower energy costs than much of Europe. The carbon footprint of that nation in comparison to other European nations who have energy production similar to our own is telling.
Below are links to a Wikipedia article on France's nuclear program, as well as a link to an environmental group in favor of nuclear energy.
Nuclear Power In France
ecolo.org
Last edited by Kaztronic on 06-20-2008 02:13 AM, edited 1 time in total.
"You'll get used to my babbling, all the others have." - Anna Madrigal from "Tales Of The City" by Armistead Maupin-
Psychicwolf
- Pirate
- Posts: 5999
- Joined: 12-31-2006 12:47 AM
If people back on the East Coast want nuclear power plants, have at 'em. Just don't plan on using the West as your dumping ground for spent fuel rods.
On the other hand...
I currently purchase 20% of my monthly power from sustainable sources, mainly wind. That is the maximum you can purchase right now, although next year it should increase to 30%. It is a nominal surcharge right now but eventually will be integrated into the standard charge.
Air, Water Powerful Partners in Northwest
Region's Hydro-Heavy Electric Grid Makes for Wind-Energy Synergy
By Blaine Harden
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, March 21, 2007; A03
PASCO, Wash. -- Like mail-order brides, thousands of long-limbed wind turbines are coming to the empty outback of Washington and Oregon, where they are being married off, via the electrical grid, to hulking old hydroelectric dams.
These are arranged weddings for a warming world -- designed never to give birth to greenhouse gases.
The Pacific Northwest is hardly alone as it chases the wind for clean power. Anxiety about climate change and surging demand for electricity have triggered a wind-power frenzy in much of the United States, making it the fastest growing wind-energy market in the world. Power-generating capacity from wind jumped 27 percent last year and is expected to do the same this year.
But it is in the Northwest where wind power, an often capricious source of electricity, meshes most seamlessly with the existing electricity grid, which relies heavily on hydroelectric dams, power managers say. This meshing of power sources is done in a way that maximizes power reliability while minimizing the grid's need for energy from fossil fuels, which release the greenhouses gases that cause global warming.
"It is synergy on a scale that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world," said Ken Dragoon, research director at the Renewable Northwest Project, a coalition of public-interest groups and energy companies.
For this synergy, thank concrete monstrosities such as Grand Coulee Dam, a federal barrier that has been squatting on the Columbia River since 1942 and is still the largest electrical generating machine in North America. Grand Coulee and other huge dams in the region are proving to be extraordinarily nimble mates for the graceful but fickle wind turbines.
continued:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 34_pf.html
On the other hand...
I currently purchase 20% of my monthly power from sustainable sources, mainly wind. That is the maximum you can purchase right now, although next year it should increase to 30%. It is a nominal surcharge right now but eventually will be integrated into the standard charge.
Air, Water Powerful Partners in Northwest
Region's Hydro-Heavy Electric Grid Makes for Wind-Energy Synergy
By Blaine Harden
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, March 21, 2007; A03
PASCO, Wash. -- Like mail-order brides, thousands of long-limbed wind turbines are coming to the empty outback of Washington and Oregon, where they are being married off, via the electrical grid, to hulking old hydroelectric dams.
These are arranged weddings for a warming world -- designed never to give birth to greenhouse gases.
The Pacific Northwest is hardly alone as it chases the wind for clean power. Anxiety about climate change and surging demand for electricity have triggered a wind-power frenzy in much of the United States, making it the fastest growing wind-energy market in the world. Power-generating capacity from wind jumped 27 percent last year and is expected to do the same this year.
But it is in the Northwest where wind power, an often capricious source of electricity, meshes most seamlessly with the existing electricity grid, which relies heavily on hydroelectric dams, power managers say. This meshing of power sources is done in a way that maximizes power reliability while minimizing the grid's need for energy from fossil fuels, which release the greenhouses gases that cause global warming.
"It is synergy on a scale that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world," said Ken Dragoon, research director at the Renewable Northwest Project, a coalition of public-interest groups and energy companies.
For this synergy, thank concrete monstrosities such as Grand Coulee Dam, a federal barrier that has been squatting on the Columbia River since 1942 and is still the largest electrical generating machine in North America. Grand Coulee and other huge dams in the region are proving to be extraordinarily nimble mates for the graceful but fickle wind turbines.
continued:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 34_pf.html
Dance to heal the earth. Not just when you're dancing, but always. Live the dance, whenever you move, in all you do, dance to heal the earth.
Unfortunately, wind power on the East Coast is not viable as a baseload power source. There are not nearly as many locations where one can place windmill farms, at least not in the quantity needed to power the very densely populated East Coast (the North East in particular). For example, according to the N.Y. Times, one of our older nuclear plants, Indian Point would require 300,000 acres of windmills to replace the power output of of the three reactors at that plant - and lest we forget, those 300,000 acres need to be placed outside of migratory bird paths (also not so easy on the East Coast).
Again, wind power is overall a wonderful solution that should obviously be explored, and utilized as much as possible - although it cannot be relied upon alone to power our nation, that is unrealistic.
According to the American Wind Energy Association, New York State has a maximum wind generating capacity of 7,000 megawatts under optimal conditions. New York City alone accounts for up to 10,000 megawatts of power at any given moment depending on the season. Indian Point, an older nuclear facility, generates on it's own, 2,000 megawatts of constant power.
Also, as far as nuclear power is concerned, new technology allows the mass majority of nuclear waste from new nuclear power plants to be recycled (as is common practice in Europe). This would greatly alleviate any, or all need to store nuclear waste at Yucca Mountain. Of course, we can't build new nuclear plants right now.
So, we have a problem. Here in the North East, our power grid is stretched to the max. During hot summer days, just to keep up with demand power is cut by 8%. New power plants need to be built to keep up with demand. To make matters worse, many of the nuclear power plants that are in use are reaching the end of their life cycles and will need to be replaced. So, what do we replace them with?
We have a few years to figure this out. Do we build new coal-burning power plants? Oil-burners? I don't think you'll be able to add much hydro here. Or do we build new nukes - with cutting edge technology?
We need to be realistic. The power companies which currently need to expand their power output, and within the next decade or so will need to begin phasing out their current nuclear power plants are going to need to build new power plants. Do you honestly think they are going to do this with windmills? Solar panels? We're talking about a lot of juice here.
I think that those plants are going to be replaced with coal and oil. Carbon-based, fossil fuel plants belching out greenhouse gases, contributing even more to global warming........ Unless we begin to reconsider the possibilities of nuclear power.
Here is one last set of stats for consideration:
In 1997 alone, NY's 21 dirtiest power plants emitted 250,000 tons of sulfur dioxide, 70,000 tons of nitrogen oxides, nearly 48 million tons of carbon dioxide, and over 700 tons of mercury into the air. This pollution devastates New York's air quality. During the summer of 1999, there were 211 violations of federal ozone smog standards in the state. Over half the people in New York State live within areas that fail to meet the federal air quality standards for summer smog." --Source: Public Utility Law Project
Again, wind power is overall a wonderful solution that should obviously be explored, and utilized as much as possible - although it cannot be relied upon alone to power our nation, that is unrealistic.
According to the American Wind Energy Association, New York State has a maximum wind generating capacity of 7,000 megawatts under optimal conditions. New York City alone accounts for up to 10,000 megawatts of power at any given moment depending on the season. Indian Point, an older nuclear facility, generates on it's own, 2,000 megawatts of constant power.
Also, as far as nuclear power is concerned, new technology allows the mass majority of nuclear waste from new nuclear power plants to be recycled (as is common practice in Europe). This would greatly alleviate any, or all need to store nuclear waste at Yucca Mountain. Of course, we can't build new nuclear plants right now.
So, we have a problem. Here in the North East, our power grid is stretched to the max. During hot summer days, just to keep up with demand power is cut by 8%. New power plants need to be built to keep up with demand. To make matters worse, many of the nuclear power plants that are in use are reaching the end of their life cycles and will need to be replaced. So, what do we replace them with?
We have a few years to figure this out. Do we build new coal-burning power plants? Oil-burners? I don't think you'll be able to add much hydro here. Or do we build new nukes - with cutting edge technology?
We need to be realistic. The power companies which currently need to expand their power output, and within the next decade or so will need to begin phasing out their current nuclear power plants are going to need to build new power plants. Do you honestly think they are going to do this with windmills? Solar panels? We're talking about a lot of juice here.
I think that those plants are going to be replaced with coal and oil. Carbon-based, fossil fuel plants belching out greenhouse gases, contributing even more to global warming........ Unless we begin to reconsider the possibilities of nuclear power.
Here is one last set of stats for consideration:
In 1997 alone, NY's 21 dirtiest power plants emitted 250,000 tons of sulfur dioxide, 70,000 tons of nitrogen oxides, nearly 48 million tons of carbon dioxide, and over 700 tons of mercury into the air. This pollution devastates New York's air quality. During the summer of 1999, there were 211 violations of federal ozone smog standards in the state. Over half the people in New York State live within areas that fail to meet the federal air quality standards for summer smog." --Source: Public Utility Law Project
"You'll get used to my babbling, all the others have." - Anna Madrigal from "Tales Of The City" by Armistead Maupin-
vrpodpilot
- Pirate
- Posts: 112
- Joined: 05-11-2008 06:59 PM
Iris wrote: McCain wants nuclear power plants, so maybe he's your man?
The principle thing that demonstrates the stupidity of nuclear power is that no insurance company in the world will insure an American power plant. Nada. None. And they're the ones who know how to actually evaluate risk.
I think I'm going to vote for McCain, just to make Iris Mad.
American Nuclear Plants come in various designs dictated by the Coorporation investing in the particular plant. I prefer a standardized proven design concept like the French. I can't believe I just typed that, but Yes, the French are doing Nuclear right, in my opinion.
Another problem with American Nuclear is the Low Bid Construction Contract System. In Texas we had a problem with the Good Ole Boy Contractors at the Glen Rose Facility. I'm sure these problems were encountered at other Plants, That's why Stricter Federal Gov. Contractor Controls are required.
Many improvements have been made to Nuclear Power Generation Systems, but facts don't seem to matter to people who prefer the psuedo science of experts like Fonda and Gore. So I don't have to get into it later, Gore and his investors are going to make billions from our fear. And why is Mars and the other planets of our solar system heating up at the same rate as Earth? What an amazing coincidence. Next Valentines Day, I'm thinking about buying a Noble Peace Prize for my Baby.
I personaly don't like the exhausted fuel aspect of Nuclear though.
Kaz as far as Ethanol, if you check into USDA report studies from the 1970's, you will find Ethanol trial studies done with various crops. Look at the Jerusalem Artichoch results compared to Corn.
If you check out Howard Bloom, you will find his documentation describing the Oil Industriy's Plan to cause Food Shortages and defeat any budding American Ethanol Manufacturing Industry.
Further proof of the Politicians and Oil Companies deliberate sabotage of Ethanol comes from the Goverment's new emphasis on developing Ethanol from Cellulose. It can be done, but it's expensive and time consuming because of the protein metabolism required. Of course this info comes from the USDA Studies almost 40 years ago, and has absolutely no bearing on today's reality.
I believe that within a year Cellulose Ethanol will be announced as a failure along with the Ethanol versus Food failure, and Big Oil will once again have eliminated the competition.
For light reading with just enough supporting facts try online articles from Mother Earth's News.
Where are the Investigative Journalists?
Last edited by vrpodpilot on 06-20-2008 04:26 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Y'all suit yourselves.
Vrpodpilot, I can't believe you typed it either. hehe
I'm with PW -- y'all keep your nuclear waste to yourselves and away from the west coast, ya hear? Oh and PW -- thanks for that article reminding me again of why I love the PNW. We SOOO rock!!!
This isn't rocket science. Just about everyone has unused exercise equipment in the garage or basement. So set up a big free gym or two or three. Heck, for the money you'll save, you can even buy big fancy new equipment. Now wire all that equipment up to your town's generators. Free gym membership for everyone, and free (well it should be darned cheap then) clean power for everyone. Speaking of cellulose, Kaz, this would keep it off our thighs.
While you're at it, outfit some of those treadmills for your kids, cats, dogs, horses, etc. A tired kid/dog/cat/horse is amazingly well behaved. Teenagers should have to do mandatory time and gang members double time.
Problem(s) solved.
Now about McCain. I wouldn't even trust that ill tempered freak alone with one of my dogs for a half an hour. So if you intend to vote for the guy, please explain to me what you and I might possibly have in common. I will need constant reminders over the next few months, and if he wins, for at least the next four years. Thank you very much in advance.
Vrpodpilot, I can't believe you typed it either. hehe
I'm with PW -- y'all keep your nuclear waste to yourselves and away from the west coast, ya hear? Oh and PW -- thanks for that article reminding me again of why I love the PNW. We SOOO rock!!!
This isn't rocket science. Just about everyone has unused exercise equipment in the garage or basement. So set up a big free gym or two or three. Heck, for the money you'll save, you can even buy big fancy new equipment. Now wire all that equipment up to your town's generators. Free gym membership for everyone, and free (well it should be darned cheap then) clean power for everyone. Speaking of cellulose, Kaz, this would keep it off our thighs.
While you're at it, outfit some of those treadmills for your kids, cats, dogs, horses, etc. A tired kid/dog/cat/horse is amazingly well behaved. Teenagers should have to do mandatory time and gang members double time.
Problem(s) solved.
Now about McCain. I wouldn't even trust that ill tempered freak alone with one of my dogs for a half an hour. So if you intend to vote for the guy, please explain to me what you and I might possibly have in common. I will need constant reminders over the next few months, and if he wins, for at least the next four years. Thank you very much in advance.
Hey Vrpodpilot,
Thanks for the information. Where did you find it? I would really like to read it. Any particular google terms I should look for?
I'd really like to believe in Ethanol, and based upon what I know now, it's difficult. That of course does not mean I know enough to form a conclusive decision, so any information is greatly appreciated. I do find the Brazilian system of ethanol made from sugarcane to be of interest and am disappointed that our government is imposing tariffs to prevent inexpensive importing of their product, especially at a time when gas prices are so high.
I am a big supporter of nuclear power, but not at the expense of exploring and expanding other clean alternative energy sources. As nuclear power creates zero carbon emissions, and we are in the process of destroying our environment while continuing to open and operate fossil fuel burning power plants, I think it needs to be a substantial part of the mix and is a very viable short term solution.
Now, Iris,
First, I want to clarify something, as I think you may be making an assumption about who I intend to vote for. As I have not yet made a decision, I can safely say that I am not voting for John McCain at this time, so relax. Honestly, I don't see myself picking a candidate prior to September. During the primaries, I developed a generally negative view of Barack Obama. As I generally find myself more in line with Democratic policies at this time, I have decided that I need to take a fresh look at Senator Obama, hear what he has to say and try to keep an open mind. It's going to take some time for me to be convinced that either candidate deserves my vote. I want to hear them clarify their positions, offer solutions to our problems, and to instill at least a modicum of faith in me that they will be true to their word. So, until I'm ready to make a decision, I will read, I will listen, and I will ask questions, and put up the occasional devil's advocate argument so I can read the views of others on those issues that bother me. So, until then, don't read too much in to my agreement with John McCain on certain issues as being indicative of my intent come November. I might just surprise you, and me, in the end.
Second, feel free to hook up an extension cord to my bike as I pedal to work most days in the summer - always happy to do my part in the never ending quest to be rid of all cellulose!
Thanks for the information. Where did you find it? I would really like to read it. Any particular google terms I should look for?
I'd really like to believe in Ethanol, and based upon what I know now, it's difficult. That of course does not mean I know enough to form a conclusive decision, so any information is greatly appreciated. I do find the Brazilian system of ethanol made from sugarcane to be of interest and am disappointed that our government is imposing tariffs to prevent inexpensive importing of their product, especially at a time when gas prices are so high.
I am a big supporter of nuclear power, but not at the expense of exploring and expanding other clean alternative energy sources. As nuclear power creates zero carbon emissions, and we are in the process of destroying our environment while continuing to open and operate fossil fuel burning power plants, I think it needs to be a substantial part of the mix and is a very viable short term solution.
Now, Iris,
First, I want to clarify something, as I think you may be making an assumption about who I intend to vote for. As I have not yet made a decision, I can safely say that I am not voting for John McCain at this time, so relax. Honestly, I don't see myself picking a candidate prior to September. During the primaries, I developed a generally negative view of Barack Obama. As I generally find myself more in line with Democratic policies at this time, I have decided that I need to take a fresh look at Senator Obama, hear what he has to say and try to keep an open mind. It's going to take some time for me to be convinced that either candidate deserves my vote. I want to hear them clarify their positions, offer solutions to our problems, and to instill at least a modicum of faith in me that they will be true to their word. So, until I'm ready to make a decision, I will read, I will listen, and I will ask questions, and put up the occasional devil's advocate argument so I can read the views of others on those issues that bother me. So, until then, don't read too much in to my agreement with John McCain on certain issues as being indicative of my intent come November. I might just surprise you, and me, in the end.
Second, feel free to hook up an extension cord to my bike as I pedal to work most days in the summer - always happy to do my part in the never ending quest to be rid of all cellulose!
Last edited by Kaztronic on 06-20-2008 10:58 PM, edited 1 time in total.
"You'll get used to my babbling, all the others have." - Anna Madrigal from "Tales Of The City" by Armistead Maupin
With sugar cane you are going to run into the same issues as corn. Take a half a dozen food articles out of your fridge or cupboard and check the ingredients. Odds are there is sugar in one form or another in there.
The sugar magnates are just as big if not bigger than the oil magnates. More sugar cane tagged for fuel, less for consumption, and your right back full circle again...........
The sugar magnates are just as big if not bigger than the oil magnates. More sugar cane tagged for fuel, less for consumption, and your right back full circle again...........
Still an Original Pirate since Aug 2000
Wanna ride the Zamboni?
Wanna ride the Zamboni?
Megman, I'm telling you the solution is in our gyms. You're a gym man. Be the first kid on your block!
~~~
Kaz, think about the nuclear power and the insurance companies. Just sayin'.
After watching Bush for almost 800 years (feels like), I can't imagine why anyone would not want to vote for Obama simply because it is your only true vote against McCain, or whoever they end up putting up that will represent more of the same. The US absolutely cannot withstand more of the same.
Truth is they all suck, but Obama appears to suck less and the choice will be between the top Repub and the top Dem. A vote for anyone else will be like wetting your pants in a dark suit. You'll get a warm feeling but nobody will notice.
~~~
Kaz, think about the nuclear power and the insurance companies. Just sayin'.
After watching Bush for almost 800 years (feels like), I can't imagine why anyone would not want to vote for Obama simply because it is your only true vote against McCain, or whoever they end up putting up that will represent more of the same. The US absolutely cannot withstand more of the same.
Truth is they all suck, but Obama appears to suck less and the choice will be between the top Repub and the top Dem. A vote for anyone else will be like wetting your pants in a dark suit. You'll get a warm feeling but nobody will notice.
Well Iris, I have made one decision, I will be voting for either Barack Obama, or John McCain - not a write-in, nor a third-party candidate.
Just taking some time before I make a decision is all
I think I understand your frustration though hearing me say that I am undecided at this time. I felt the same way during the Democratic Primaries, often wondering why people weren't getting behind Hillary.
Relating to other peoples concerns/thought process' are probably the most difficult part of posting on this deck.
Just taking some time before I make a decision is all
I think I understand your frustration though hearing me say that I am undecided at this time. I felt the same way during the Democratic Primaries, often wondering why people weren't getting behind Hillary.
Relating to other peoples concerns/thought process' are probably the most difficult part of posting on this deck.
"You'll get used to my babbling, all the others have." - Anna Madrigal from "Tales Of The City" by Armistead MaupinI wanted to mention as we've been discussing energy in this thread that it might be worth picking up "The Economist" this week. It has a large feature section on "The Future Of Energy" including good articles on both wind power, and nuclear energy. Additionally, they take a look at electric cars, bio-fuels, etc.....
"You'll get used to my babbling, all the others have." - Anna Madrigal from "Tales Of The City" by Armistead Maupin