Dems Reach Delegate Agreement

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Biker
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Post by Biker » 06-02-2008 12:29 AM

Linnea wrote: HB has it exactly right.

There is a lot of leeway here, especially in the p&g thread - but there needs to be some limit.

It is true Kaz's post was skating just above that limit.


So...calling me "pathetic, classless, shameless and disgusting" is somehow more palatable than than calling someone a "creep"?

That's "just above that limit"?

It appears that the parameters are arbitrarily adjustable.

HB: No, there is no difference, it's purely semantic and lawyer-like slippery.

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Post by HB3 » 06-02-2008 12:32 AM

He said that about your post, not about you. This is a commonly recognized distinction. There's a difference between saying, "You sound like an asshole," and "You ARE an asshole."

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Post by Biker » 06-02-2008 12:35 AM

Really? What does the "I'm calling you on it personally" sound like?

Where's the distinction?

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Post by Shimmering Auro » 06-02-2008 12:41 AM

Biker wrote: Really? What does the "I'm calling you on it personally" sound like?

Where's the distinction?

Biker


There is none.

As far as staying on topic. For the citizens of this country, rules are rules.

For politicians, they're bendable and easily manipulated.

Get ready for 4 years of McCain. :(

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Post by Kaztronic » 06-02-2008 12:52 AM

Biker wrote: Really? What does the "I'm calling you on it personally" sound like?


I am not going to get further in to this discussion except to say that I can clarify what that statement means in this case as those were my words. I have apologized for what took place in that thread and will leave it at that.

What it meant was that I was calling you out on your words that I had a problem with at that particular moment in time. My view of your words later changed as you may recall from my last post in that thread.

This example is similar to the incident where I said I was going to ignore Tiffany going forward, and you called that decision "cowardly". Were you calling me a coward? Or my decision to disengage from Tiff cowardly?

See the parallel?
Last edited by Kaztronic on 06-02-2008 12:57 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by HB3 » 06-02-2008 12:55 AM

Biker wrote: Really? What does the "I'm calling you on it personally" sound like?


It's sounds like a confused turn of phrase. I don't know what the difference between "calling you on it" and "calling you on it personally" means.

To state it again, there is a commonly recognized distinction between descriptions of someone's speech and defamation of their character per se. Wouldn't get very far if we couldn't criticize someone's statements, could we?

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Post by HB3 » 06-02-2008 12:58 AM

I didn't think Tiff was that bad. She seemed to finally lose it, but I don't think she really had a history of all caps outbursts like that.

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Post by Biker » 06-02-2008 01:26 AM

Kaztronic wrote: I am not going to get further in to this discussion except to say that I can clarify what that statement means in this case as those were my words. I have apologized for what took place in that thread and will leave it at that.

What it meant was that I was calling you out on your words that I had a problem with at that particular moment in time. My view of your words later changed as you may recall from my last post in that thread.

This example is similar to the incident where I said I was going to ignore Tiffany going forward, and you called that decision "cowardly". Were you calling me a coward? Or my decision to disengage from Tiff cowardly?

See the parallel?


No, I don't.

We are defined by what we do. If you lie, you are a liar. if you steal, you are a thief. If you act in a cowardly manner, you are a coward.

See the parallel?

You never disengaged from Miss Tiff - you stalked her, baited her, and throughout this whole mess, you were given free reign, just as you were when you attacked me with impunity. This seems to be a pattern with you and a mod or two.

It's not right.

Although I accepted your apology, it was offered after a great deal of time (taken in context), time that was not offered to Miss Tiff, and you were not even warned of your transgressions by a mod - not once.

You are, at best, disingenuous.

At worst...? Look inside yourself.

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Post by Linnea » 06-02-2008 01:49 AM

As this thread now seems to have drifted completely off topic...

The back and forth between Tiffany and Kaz has been ongoing for some time and is clearly reflected in the posts which are available for anyone to read.

This has not been one sided. As I recall, Kaz was the first to try to disengage from this back and forth between them. He was not successful in this, as quite a few times Tiffany would come into a thread and re-engage. It seemed to be her choice to make the discussions personal, and a questioning of the logic of her statements offended her.

This eventually degenerated into the personal attack witnessed in this thread. This is unfortunate, but it happens.

Maybe something we should all give some thought to. It seems we have entered a general season of intolerance. Healthy and honest discussions may be a way to share our thoughts, and find common ground.

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Post by Linnea » 06-02-2008 01:56 AM

Anyone notice this thread is descending even lower than the level of civility of the Rules and Bylaws Committee?

:cool:

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Post by Biker » 06-02-2008 02:06 AM

So perhaps you can explain to me why Kaz is permitted to make personal attacks ( as I've provided proof of) but Miss Tiff isn't?

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Post by majda » 06-02-2008 02:46 AM

Biker wrote: So perhaps you can explain to me why Kaz is permitted to make personal attacks ( as I've provided proof of) but Miss Tiff isn't?

Biker


I am going to put myself into a voluntarily suspension, in protest of what has happened here. There are two sides to every story... I don't like what has happened, and I don't agree with tiffany's suspension. I hate to leave here during this terrible time our country is going through, and I really do hate to withdraw from this forum during this serious, and desperate time. But... this isn't right. And so, to those of you that I respect, I say adieu in protest. :( Truthfully, I feel like I am living in China here.
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Post by Chickadee » 06-02-2008 06:06 AM

Well listen to this Hillary supporter it's all over the media...


No thank you. I make a choice to ignore muck-raking.

Scratch any surface and you can find fleas on anyone.

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Post by IronsGold » 06-02-2008 06:20 AM

majda wrote: I am going to put myself into a voluntarily suspension, in protest of what has happened here. There are two sides to every story... I don't like what has happened, and I don't agree with tiffany's suspension. I hate to leave here during this terrible time our country is going through, and I really do hate to withdraw from this forum during this serious, and desperate time. But... this isn't right. And so, to those of you that I respect, I say adieu in protest. :( Truthfully, I feel like I am living in China here.


I hate it when this happens, when I agree so strongly with Biker and majda, I know everyone will say I'm just sticking up for friends. But in this case, my outrage is for Tiffany. She's a loyal, long time member and posts almost everyday. She obviously loves this forum and to ban her now (30 days!) is plain cruel. There are different rules for different pirates, it's all in who you are friendly with and how much the mods like you. To argue that Kaz insulted a post and not the person is a distinction worthy of Bill Clinton.

Kaz has wanted Tiffany off this board for weeks, and has tried his best to bait her into getting banned. Well, now he's done it. I hope he's happy. Once again, this forum will become one sided with only a handful of posters, all in agreement with one another. Now even the old timers are leaving. It's a shame, literally.
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whskyfan
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Post by whskyfan » 06-02-2008 07:35 AM

I have to say I agree with IronsGold. The rules are a necessity everyone has to live with and they should be applied straight across the board.

I also agree with majda.
And so, to those of you that I respect, I say adieu in protest.
:(
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