The Hillary Clinton Corner: All things Hillary

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Re: The Hillary Clinton Corner: All things Hillary

Post by kbot » 04-13-2016 11:19 AM

:shock:

So...... let me get this straight, Hillary is more desirable than Sanders because Bernie's plan is to increase taxes on Wall St and other corporations that send money and jobs to off-shore countries and accounts, and Hillary is more desirable than Bernie because her plan is to increase taxes by over $1 TRILLION in a tax mess that includes everyone, including the ever-shrinking middle class in a plan that affects their savings and retirement plans. OK, got it.

And, this is "better", how?

As I've said before - it's difficult to impose new rules and regulations (and taxes) on those individuals and corporations that you're accepting money from in order to get elected...........

Snippet from cited article:

Hillary’s $1 trillion tax increase takes the form of several proposals:

$350 Billion Income Tax Increase for a “New College Compact” – Clinton has proposed a $350 billion income tax hike in the form of a 28 percent cap on itemized deductions.

$275 Billion Business Tax Increase for “Infrastructure”—Clinton has called for a tax hike of at least $275 billion through undefined business tax reform. According to the Clinton campaign document, “Hillary will fully pay for these [Infrastructure] investments through business tax reform.”

$400 Billion “Fairness” Tax Increase -- According to her published plan, Clinton has called for a tax increase of “between $400 and $500 billion” by “restoring basic fairness to our tax code.” These proposals include a “fair share surcharge,” taxing carried interest capital gains as ordinary income, and raising the Death Tax.

However, Clinton has also proposed several tax increases not included in the tally above. Because her campaign has failed to release specific details for many of her proposals, the true figure is likely much, much higher than $1 trillion.

For instance:

Capital Gains Tax Increase -- Clinton has proposed an increase in the capital gains tax to counter the “tyranny of today’s earnings report.” Her plan calls for an overly complex, byzantine capital gains tax regime with six brackets for those whose total taxable income puts them in the top 39.6 percent bracket. Her campaign has not said how much this will increase taxes.

Tax on Stock Trading -- Clinton has proposed a new, unquantified tax on stock trading. The tax increase would only further burden markets by discouraging trading and investment. Inevitably, costs associated with this new tax will be borne by millions of American families that hold 401(k)s, IRAs and other savings accounts.

“Exit Tax” – Clinton has proposed a series of measures aimed at corporate inversions including an “exit tax” – on income earned overseas. The term “exit tax” is used by the campaign itself. This proposal would completely fail to address the underlying causes behind inversions. Her campaign document describing this proposal says it will raise $80 billion in tax revenue, but claims some of the $80 billion will be plowed into tax relief. It does not specify a dollar amount.
What the hell are we fighting for? Ah, just surrender and it won't hurt at all. You just got time to say your prayers. Yeah, while you're waiting for the hammer to fall. (Brian May of Queen)

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Re: The Hillary Clinton Corner: All things Hillary

Post by Doka » 04-13-2016 03:03 PM

With those kinds of astronomical figures, the Hill And the Bern cannot help, but wipe out the middle class, in the fact there is simply not enough super rich in this country. Mayby a years worth, if that. In this case you do not have to be Evil to cause great harm. :shock:
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Re: The Hillary Clinton Corner: All things Hillary

Post by kbot » 04-13-2016 05:46 PM

I have to believe that there is a better way. I can't see the GOP protecting the middle class, and while I truly do like Sanders and his perspective on things, I'm finding it difficult to believe that the Democrats will do much more than over exorbitant tax levies directed squarely at the middle class whilst protecting those far richer than most everyone else. I don't believe that Sanders will get the support he would need (even if he were to be elected) and Hillary? We'll she'll get some of her programs, but you can bet her backers will be well shielded by the GOP "working collaboratively" with a Hillary WH....
What the hell are we fighting for? Ah, just surrender and it won't hurt at all. You just got time to say your prayers. Yeah, while you're waiting for the hammer to fall. (Brian May of Queen)

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Re: The Hillary Clinton Corner: All things Hillary

Post by fos » 04-13-2016 06:15 PM

Socialism / Communism can never work. Too bad that is the way our society is headed.....

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Re: The Hillary Clinton Corner: All things Hillary

Post by Raggedyann » 04-13-2016 09:00 PM

fos wrote:Socialism / Communism can never work. Too bad that is the way our society is headed.....
Capitalism has been so successful hasn't it? The club that you and I and the rest of the 98% don't belong to.

Socialism works great in several European countries. They keep voting it in, election after election. Take a look at Stockholm and then take a look at Detroit. Take a look at other economically devastated areas of the U.S. Pretty bloody sad and there is no reason for it other than greed from on high and a brainwashed society that worships billionaires and suck up the unrealistic notion that they can be one too.

Socialist leaning countries believe in economic fairness and guess what? Their citizens have just as many opportunities to become rich as you do. They don't need millions of poor people hanging around to measure their success and to keep educated and skilled workers living in fear.
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Re: The Hillary Clinton Corner: All things Hillary

Post by Doka » 04-13-2016 09:19 PM

Kbot said:


. I can't see the GOP protecting the middle class

I'm not sure how you can say THAT. We have actually lived pretty good, through several Repub presidents in this country. Have you forgotten already, the last 8 years ? Under Democrat leadership? Do you not think the Dems will share some of the burden of a destroyed Constitution and country? Or again will it be the discusting white folks etc,etc. :huhsmile:
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Re: The Hillary Clinton Corner: All things Hillary

Post by Doka » 04-13-2016 10:24 PM

Raggedyann said:

"
Capitalism has been so successful hasn't it? The club that you and I and the rest of the 98% don't belong to.


WE have done pretty well with capitalism. You own property, a house, a car, you had jobs when you needed, you travel, you go to the store and buy stuff from a huge selection of other stuff. And I would imagine you have a checking account, maybe even a savings account. You are free to come and go when and if you want to as you please. These are a few of the things that capitalism has provided the opportunity for you to enjoy or not.

Socialist communist Cuba is a classic example of the way you prefer to live? The tiny, low population countries that enjoyed their socialism, did not have to pay for their armies, because they have none or tiny for show. Even they are on the brink of disaster, the workers are paying for all the ones, that don't do anything. The money WILL run out. Once you get rid of the wealth on the top, the people in the middle class and the poor will suffer dramatically MORE!

But , I will tell you this, the rich, the heads of governments will NEVER live a life of socialism, that's for people underneath them. They will always enjoy the best of what capitalism has to offer. So when your hand goes out to pay for things, services, that some body else pays for there is always a danger they will say NO. You are never free.
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Re: The Hillary Clinton Corner: All things Hillary

Post by Raggedyann » 04-14-2016 01:44 AM

Doka wrote:Raggedyann said:

"
Capitalism has been so successful hasn't it? The club that you and I and the rest of the 98% don't belong to.


WE have done pretty well with capitalism. You own property, a house, a car, you had jobs when you needed, you travel, you go to the store and buy stuff from a huge selection of other stuff. And I would imagine you have a checking account, maybe even a savings account. You are free to come and go when and if you want to as you please. These are a few of the things that capitalism has provided the opportunity for you to enjoy or not.

Socialist communist Cuba is a classic example of the way you prefer to live? The tiny, low population countries that enjoyed their socialism, did not have to pay for their armies, because they have none or tiny for show. Even they are on the brink of disaster, the workers are paying for all the ones, that don't do anything. The money WILL run out. Once you get rid of the wealth on the top, the people in the middle class and the poor will suffer dramatically MORE!

But , I will tell you this, the rich, the heads of governments will NEVER live a life of socialism, that's for people underneath them. They will always enjoy the best of what capitalism has to offer. So when your hand goes out to pay for things, services, that some body else pays for there is always a danger they will say NO. You are never free.
Now this is amusing. Do you know how many times I have been tempted to ask the same questions when I see all the whining and complaining on this forum about the system in your country? Excuse me, but which is it? Confused here. The very mention of the word socialism suddenly sparks patriotic content. :D

Nothing wrong with conservative ideologies but that is not what you have. And how did you get to a place where this is not what you have? Through greedy bastards rigging up some phony, corrupt thing called Capitalism, that's how.

Yes, I do have a comfortable life. There have been times in my life when things were not quite so comfortable and for some strange reason I can't get this out of my mind. One of the reasons is because I don't just focus on my own comfortable little world. I have concerns and compassion for those that are not so comfortable under this wretched system. Another reason could be that when I toiled at minimum wage jobs in the 70's supporting 2 kids alone, I could always pay my rent and put decent food on the table. Hell, I could even go have a drink at the bar on Friday night and take my kids to a movie on Saturday night. In those days Vancouver Island had the most millionaires per capita, than any other place in Canada. Everybody was happy! :mrgreen:

Minimum wage back then was around $3.00 an hour. After 45 years it's $10 an hour. See where this is going? We too bitched about able bodied people sitting on welfare for long periods of time because there were more jobs and we could survive OK on minimum wages.

You can't compare countries like Cuba that live under dictatorships and oppression of human rights to countries like Denmark and Sweden that do not. If communism and capitalism can be implemented in large countries, then socialism can be implemented too. Size is irrelevant.

The fall out of events in the middle east and the challenges dealing with all powerful western capitalism is what is causing a possible collapse of the European Union.
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Re: The Hillary Clinton Corner: All things Hillary

Post by Doka » 04-14-2016 09:48 AM

Ra, What you say for the most part is true.. A little known fact about the "Panama Papers" most of the names, not all for sure, where "Socialists". So you might consider this, Our problems are not just because of the "Labels" we give ourselves and others, but more of a human condition, much more personal. It is called Greed, it is the great "spoiler" of any political system known to man. Greed, Envy and the lust for Power have brought down every civilization since the beginning of time. Do you really think we are all here to "Change the World" ? Or could it be ,that we are here to have the world change us? No wonder things are such a mess, we are all talking at once, and stuck in it. Lack, that one little word of great dis-content and fear that we will loose what we have, turns us into un-thinking beings. Think about a world where every one gets up and takes care of only whats on their own plate, lives their lives with integrity and caring. Well Not on this planet. I have become thankful, that I'm only here for such a short time. Karma can be a bitch.

Mean while back on "the ranch" socialism will never bring people up, but will always take them down. There isn't enough money in the world to keep the poverty ridden people, that demand the "Best" of every thing, from someone elses pocket. I call them "Poverty Tryants" and we have had a lot of those created in the last 8 years.

Hey, remember the" Hippy Communes" a perfect study in socialism, being communsim(The Ideal). If they worked so well , there should, be thousands of them around!
Where are they? Guess what? They didn't work, they fell apart.


Sorry, I really got "windy" :roll:
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Re: The Hillary Clinton Corner: All things Hillary

Post by kbot » 04-14-2016 11:23 AM

fos wrote:Socialism / Communism can never work. Too bad that is the way our society is headed.....
I am not a fan of communism by any means - it DOES make for interesting read about "the ideals", but then people, put their own spin on things. Also, not overly enamored of socialism either, but I do see merits in both systems. All I know is, we can't go on trying the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.

While we have "capitalism", in many ways, it is becoming more reflective of feudalism and seeing even incidences of indentured slavery. Personally, I'm OK financially. Not rich by any means but better of than my parents and grandparents were. I feel bad for my son and other of his generation who will be screwed.
Even Hillary's campaign has stated that a proposed $1 trillion tax increase is heading our way under her administration. Really, we can't make any cuts in government anywhere????

And, I don't expect any help with outsourcing. Jobs will continue to leave no mater who is in charge.....
What the hell are we fighting for? Ah, just surrender and it won't hurt at all. You just got time to say your prayers. Yeah, while you're waiting for the hammer to fall. (Brian May of Queen)

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Re: The Hillary Clinton Corner: All things Hillary

Post by Riddick » 04-14-2016 05:21 PM

kbot wrote:All I know is, we can't go on trying the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.
Different results?? So much crazy voter talk! More of the same, that's the Washington Establishment game
kbot wrote:Even Hillary's campaign has stated that a proposed $1 trillion tax increase is heading our way under her administration. Really, we can't make any cuts in government anywhere????
You can't cut back government when spending on programs that particular political constituencies support is the gift that keeps on giving. That goes for both sides. Deficits are bad only when the other party runs 'em.

Tax hikes are the answer to what exactly: like the government isn't doing enough? What IS it they're doing? Perot wondered, we have huge national debt yet what've we got to show for it? That's still a good question

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Re: The Hillary Clinton Corner: All things Hillary

Post by kbot » 04-14-2016 06:23 PM

Riddick wrote:You can't cut back government when spending on programs that particular political constituencies support is the gift that keeps on giving. That goes for both sides.
"Social welfare"? "Corporate welfare"? Choose your poison........
What the hell are we fighting for? Ah, just surrender and it won't hurt at all. You just got time to say your prayers. Yeah, while you're waiting for the hammer to fall. (Brian May of Queen)

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Re: The Hillary Clinton Corner: All things Hillary

Post by Raggedyann » 04-14-2016 07:46 PM

Doka wrote:Mean while back on "the ranch" socialism will never bring people up, but will always take them down. There isn't enough money in the world to keep the poverty ridden people, that demand the "Best" of every thing, from someone elses pocket. I call them "Poverty Tryants" and we have had a lot of those created in the last 8 years.
So how do you feel about the taxpayer subsidizing big business? The corporate welfare situation! They refuse to pay their employees a living wage so you get to make up the short fall with food stamps, housing subsidies, and healthcare etc. Everybody else in business follows suit. Unions have pretty much been decimated and the Gov doesn't give a damn because the middle class is paying the bill and all these corporate and Gov a$$holes can live a great life playing golf WITH EACH OTHER at their fancy resorts, yachting around on the weekend and kicking back with a cocktail at the end of their day in one their mansions. No I'm not jealous, I'm pissed off.

There have always been welfare bums and there always will be. But back in the day the true welfare bums were kicked off the system because our countries had the staff to manage, monitor and implement policies. They no longer have staff large enough to do this. Canada is planning on building "affordable" housing. This is code for Gov subsided rent because the corporate masters have laid down the law. Raising the minimum wage is a no, no.

The Bronx alone has 750,000 people living in subsidized housing and it's like this all over the U.S. Many of these folks are employed. But what the hell, they need to just pull up their boot straps and find a way to earn more money right? Not everybody has the capabilities to earn a degree or improve their skills. And thank God for that as who would do the grunt work and look after all the fancy golf courses and mansions?

People that incessantly bitch about welfare bums have been had. Drag your brains out of the Reagan era and into today's reality.
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Re: The Hillary Clinton Corner: All things Hillary

Post by Riddick » 04-16-2016 05:04 PM

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