Watching The US Economy Crumble

Discussion of the economy

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Linnea
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Post by Linnea » 08-31-2005 10:01 AM

Let's start planting....industrial hemp. Current diesel refineries could process it. Let's use some of that old american ingenuity - and start exploding some myths. The diesel could at least power trucks, busses and generators.

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Post by palosheights » 08-31-2005 10:09 AM

whatever happened to pro bono? that's right, only people who have money can do work pro bono.

i have no answers, just a lot of hard work and take only what you need and not what you want.

andy

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fabzilla
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Post by fabzilla » 08-31-2005 11:07 AM

Linnea wrote: Let's start planting....industrial hemp.



I'm an "industrialist"

:D

To be serious...

Good points Linn

it's time to just do it for ourselves.

fab

:cool:
Ah drrr drrr drrr

Linnea
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Post by Linnea » 08-31-2005 12:43 PM

Heck, yah, Fab. And get out the bicycles, and start strengthening the leg muscles and aerobic condition. A long walk to work? Maybe relocate more production and services in communities.

Sometimes it takes tragedies of such magnitude to open eyes, very sadly. And will we rise to the occasion...

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fabzilla
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Post by fabzilla » 08-31-2005 12:55 PM

Think local


We constantly source within the local grid, and yes I too have a short commute to ye old shop, my knees are junk and the peddling is awfully painful but the mind overcomes.

People as a whole need to re-evaluate their actual cost per mile traveled and not solely judge the pending gloom only the price at the pump. Control and forethought instead of the spur of the moment mentality will have a very positive effect if people just look and see it and this one, may be a long overdue slap in the face to Joe Q Public.

Change just a little and the effects will cover a wide stroke.

Physical condition and health are top of the list, along with stress and awareness of your environment.








:)
Ah drrr drrr drrr

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Post by Cherry Kelly » 09-02-2005 12:39 PM

Its not just the gas problems --
watch for price hikes on any foods or other items that come through the NO area into the USA...

coffee -- they showed a warehouse with bags and bags of coffee beans - ruined or mostly ruined by floodwaters.
Fruits -- also ruined.

Remember NO port town was major entry for many of these types of things too. As well as those huge refineries for gasoline.

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Post by palosheights » 09-02-2005 03:20 PM

i do most of my shopping at sam's club and prices there have risen about 30 to 50 pct this past year alone, now i do most of my shopping at independant stores where they are cheaper than sams.

prices will be going up another 30 to 50 pct in the next years time or more.

two things:

with oil prices skyrocketing the state governments are seeing a windfall in taxes because of this and,

where in the goddamn hell (in the words of new orleans mayor) are the oil companies providing any type of relief to katrina victims? i've haven't heard a single word from any oil company. bastards

andy

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Post by spiritme » 09-11-2005 05:01 PM

Gov´t Manipulation of stock market detailed in new Report

MANCHESTER, Conn.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Sept. 6, 2005--A major Canadian financial management firm that a year ago published a compilation of evidence of central bank manipulation of the gold price has just done the same in regard to the U.S. stock market and has reached a similar conclusion.

The new report is titled "Move Over, Adam Smith: The Visible Hand of Uncle Sam," and has been published by Sprott Asset Management of Toronto. It was written by the firm´s president, John P. Embry, and his assistant, Andrew Hepburn, and concludes that the U.S. government has intervened to support the stock market so many times that "what apparently started as a stopgap measure may have morphed into a serious moral hazard situation, with market manipulation an endemic feature of the U.S. stock market."

The new report relies largely on reports of news organizations and the essays and research papers of economics academics that, as might be expected, have not been well-publicized in the United States. But some of these reports have been circulated by the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee over the years.

The Sprott report does not maintain that the government should never intervene in the stock market; it recognizes that certain emergencies may argue strongly for temporary intervention, such as the 1987 stock market crash and the terrorist attacks of September 2001. But, the Sprott report notes, frequent surreptitious intervention, conducted through intermediaries, the government´s favored financial houses in New York, gives those intermediaries enormous advantages over ordinary investors. Frequent intervention, the Sprott report adds also makes it impossible to distinguish between national emergencies and political expediency.

The Sprott report concludes:

"Given the available information, we do not believe there can be any doubt that the U.S. government has intervened to support the stock market. Too much credible information exists to deny this. Yet virtually no one ever mentions government intervention publicly, preferring instead to pretend as if such activities have never taken place and never would.

"It is time that market participants, the media and, most of all, the government acknowledge what should be blatantly obvious to anyone who reviews the public record on the matter: These markets have been interfered with on numerous occasions. Our primary concern is that what apparently started as a stopgap measure may have morphed into a serious moral hazard situation, with market manipulation an endemic feature of the U.S. stock market.

"We have not taken a position on the wisdom of intervention in this paper, largely because exceptional circumstances could argue for it. In many respects, for instance, the apparent rescue after the 1987 crash and the planned intervention in the wake of September 11 were very defensible. Administered in extremely small doses and with the most stringent safeguards and transparency, market stabilization could be justified.

"But a policy enacted in secret and knowingly withheld from the body politic has created a huge disconnect between those knowledgeable about such activities and the majority of the public, who have no clue whatsoever.

"There can be no doubt that the firms responsible for implementing government interventions enjoy an enviable position unavailable to other investors. Whether they have been indemnified against potential losses or simply made privy to non-public government policy, the major Wall Street firms evidently responsible for preventing plunges no longer must compete on anywhere near a level playing field. It is most unfair that the immensely powerful have been further ensconced in their perched positions and thus effectively insulated from the competitive market forces ostensibly present in our society.

"In addition to creating a privileged class, the manipulation also has little democratic legitimacy in the sense that the citizenry has not given its consent. This has tangible ramifications. By not informing the public, successive U.S. administrations have employed a dangerous policy response that is subject to the worst possible abuse. In this regard, the line between national necessity and political expediency has no doubt been perilously blurred.

"We can only urge people to see what the evidence indicates and debate what is and ought to be a very contentious matter. The time for such a public discussion is long overdue."

The Sprott report can be found in Adobe Acrobat format at the Sprott Internet site here: http://www.sprott.com/pdf/pressrelease/ ... leHand.pdf

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Post by Gotrox » 09-11-2005 05:34 PM

yes the making of corn alcohol gasoline -- each plant when in operation will have 40-50 workers. Now granted this is in the middle of the USA where "corn is king" - but it is where the majority of the economy is tied to farming and where jobs are scarce.


Takes 2 equivalent gallons of fuel to make 1 gallon of ethanol----just in fuel, not counting labor costs-----so when diesel goes up, it reflects directly on ethanol cost.

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Post by palosheights » 09-11-2005 07:40 PM

most new cars can run on 80 pct distilled alcohol, that's right - moonshine. stills are going for about us250 now, so you can find whatever yard waste, grass, leaves, apples, anything and have distilled and use in your car.

or, we can do it ourselves by making our cars get 250 or more miles per gallon since the govt or big business won't do it for us. check out the article in today's rense site about how engines like these have been supressed for many many years. i know have heard stories like these for a long time, as has everyone else, now there are references with patents relating to this on the web. now, we just need how to do this ourselves, there must be some upgrades that we can do to achieve this. is there anyone out there that can accomplish this and show everyone out here on the internet that the every day person can do??? this technology has been around for a long time so some one out there must know.

check out the rense at:

http://byronw.www1host.com/

any comments that can help everyone achieve this?? everyone needs help here with this and from this article this has been done before many times so we can do it again but as in the article you can't market this because the general public will never find out about it or worse yet they may never hear from you again. that's what make the internet great, you can get the message out.

andy

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Post by Linnea » 09-11-2005 09:04 PM

If you find a 'recipe' post it here, Andy. I think there must also be plans for constructing a distiller. Alcohol is highly flammable though. Wondering too, if it is legal. Ha!

Everclear vs. Enron

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Post by palosheights » 09-12-2005 10:31 PM

yes, it is legal as long as you dilute the distilled product with something else so it's not consumable.

big business and the govt have a vested interest in not pursuing these technologies. for on the govt gets gobs of taxes so if something was free there would be no tax base and big business only wants the money.

andy

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