LOST ~ The Final Season ~ Destiny Found ~ EPISODE Discussion

[racehorse]

Excellent analysis, Joolz.

I believe that the splitting of the timelines into alternate realities is very possible. It is consistent with many contemporary theories. There are I believe many realities involving all of us, some with minor and only subtle differences, others with dramatic and major differences but each reality is interconnected with each other to perhaps varying extents

Season Six of "Lost" is starting out in remarkable fashion.

[Joolz]

Hi racehorse! Good to see you posting with us! Good post, too. I agree.

[Joolz]

I've been doing some more reading and thinking about the exchange btween Richard and Not-Locke outside the "Foot" after Jacob was killed. Let's look at it again:

Not-Locke: Hello Richard. It's good to see you out of those chains.
Richard: You?
Not-Locke: Me!

The look on Richard's face when Not-Locke addresses him with this comment is one of sheer, outright FEAR. Something is being communicated between these two that let's Richard know exactly who/what he's dealing with, something that we, the viewers, obviously aren't completely in-the-know about ourselves just yet. So, in that aspect, this exchange is important.

I'm also wondering if the comment about "chains" is of dual, or even triple meaning. I posted a couple of ideas about that above, but here's another: What IF... the chains mentioned were actually those of Not-Locke/Smoky? Maybe what he means is that HE had been chained, restrained, by Jacob (Smoky does make noises that sound like chains rattling at times), and now he is free, and it is "good" to see Richard as someone whose power is now reduced, and himself as unchained and free.

Put a pause in the middle of that sentence, where other words might be inserted (such as: "It's good to see you [now that I am] out of those chains."), and it takes on a different meaning. There is SOMETHING unsaid here that strikes pure fear into Richard as he recognizes who he's talking to ("You?" "Me!"). Whatever it is that's left unsaid indicates the nature of the relationship between these two characters, so this is obviously an important key to a part of the mystery. IMHO.

What do you guys think?

[racehorse]

I've been doing some more reading and thinking about the exchange btween Richard and Not-Locke outside the "Foot" after Jacob was killed. Let's look at it again:

The look on Richard's face when Not-Locke addresses him with this comment is one of sheer, outright FEAR. Something is being communicated between these two that let's Richard know exactly who/what he's dealing with, something that we, the viewers, obviously aren't completely in-the-know about ourselves just yet. So, in that aspect, this exchange is important.

I'm also wondering if the comment about "chains" is of dual, or even triple meaning. I posted a couple of ideas about that above, but here's another: What IF... the chains mentioned were actually those of Not-Locke/Smoky? Maybe what he means is that HE had been chained, restrained, by Jacob (Smoky does make noises that sound like chains rattling at times), and now he is free, and it is "good" to see Richard as someone whose power is now reduced, and himself as unchained and free.

Put a pause in the middle of that sentence, where other words might be inserted (such as: "It's good to see you [now that I am] out of those chains."), and it takes on a different meaning. There is SOMETHING unsaid here that strikes pure fear into Richard as he recognizes who he's talking to ("You?" "Me!"). Whatever it is that's left unsaid indicates the nature of the relationship between these two characters, so this is obviously an important key to a part of the mystery. IMHO.

What do you guys think?

Yes, Joolz, I agree with this interpretation.

Richard knew exactly who/what was addressing him and I believe the chains mentioned were not Richard's.At one point it was established that Richard maintains his youthful appearance because Jacob gave him this ability. I believe Richard is unquestionably loyal to Jacob and probably has been for an enormously long time. He knows many things we don't yet and more than any other mortal on the show (assuming Richard is mortal). Richard and Jacob are I am certain "good guys" to use the phraseology of Benjamin Linus.

Richard who is very "old" almost certainly has firsthand experience dealing with the "entity" (as I will refer to him/it for now) that addressed him and chains were probably used perhaps when the entity was in human form and before for whatever reasons may have transformed into other forms. I believe the entity is almost certainly the black shirted rival of Jacob's that we first saw in "The Incident". The mention of the "loophole" would seem to confirm this at least to me.

Perhaps the entity has acquired various shape shifting abilities over time including perhaps but not definitely the smoke monster. I remember the rather strange comment made to Mr. Eko by what appeared to be his brother indicating he was not before he was killed by the monster. What appeared to be Alex at Ben's "Judgment" is another possible example of this.

Perhaps Jacob has these abilities as well (I am convinced he is not permanently dead). Dr. Christian Shepherd for example? Alternatively, maybe these are those of the evil entity (rival, perhaps smoke monster?) as well. I doubt all of them are, however.

Maybe all of this is true, maybe part of it, or perhaps none of it but it is great to be able to speculate on these possibilities.

[Joolz]

Yes, Joolz, I agree with this interpretation.

Richard knew exactly who/what was addressing him and I believe the chains mentioned were not Richard's.At one point it was established that Richard maintains his youthful appearance because Jacob gave him this ability. I believe Richard is unquestionably loyal to Jacob and probably has been for an enormously long time. He knows many things we don't yet and more than any other mortal on the show (assuming Richard is mortal). Richard and Jacob are I am certain "good guys" to use the phraseology of Benjamin Linus.

Well, yes, I also think it's quite probable that Richard was facing another shock, which was the realization that with Jacob's death, he would no longer be ageless. (He has said that it was because of Jacob that he appears not to age, and is therefore, virtually immortal.) So now, on top of facing his mortality, he also learns he is facing a mortal enemy, one whom he fears a great deal.

Richard who is very "old" almost certainly has firsthand experience dealing with the "entity" (as I will refer to him/it for now) that addressed him and chains were probably used perhaps when the entity was in human form and before for whatever reasons may have transformed into other forms. I believe the entity is almost certainly the black shirted rival of Jacob's that we first saw in "The Incident". The mention of the "loophole" would seem to confirm this at least to me.

Yes, the "loophole guy," aka MIB (Man in Black, played by Titus Welliver), whom we saw in the Season 5 finale, is, most likely, now the same entity I am calling "Not-Locke." And yes, Jacob saying, "Well, you found your loophole" certainly points us in that direction (exactly what that loophole IS, we still don't know, though). However, this could be some misdirection, as TPTB do seem to enjoy doing that to us. But right now, this is what I am also assuming.

Perhaps the entity has acquired various shape shifting abilities over time including perhaps but not definitely the smoke monster. I remember the rather strange comment made to Mr. Eko by what appeared to be his brother indicating he was not before he was killed by the monster. What appeared to be Alex at Ben's "Judgment" is another possible example of this.

Yes, I also think Smoky was impersonating Eko's brother, Yemi, right before he killed him. His words were: "You speak to me as if I were your brother." And it is also most probable that Smoky was impersonating Alex during Ben's judgment scene as well.

Perhaps Jacob has these abilities as well (I am convinced he is not permanently dead). Dr. Christian Shepherd for example? Alternatively, maybe these are those of the evil entity (rival, perhaps smoke monster?) as well. I doubt all of them are, however.

I am also not convinced that we've seen the last of Jacob, and he may well also be able to inhabit other bodies. What is going on with Christian is one of the biggest mysteries, for me. It could be Jacob who has reanimated Christian's body, but if so, then his ability may differ from that of MIB/Not-Locke/Smoky (IF they are, indeed, all the same) because in the case of Locke and Yemi, the bodies seem to have been recreated rather than reanimated (dead and live copies simultaneously). With Christian, we have never seen his dead body, so it is a curiosity. Christian also seems to be able to travel off-Island. I am not sure what is going on there!

I am also not quite sure which is "good" and which is "evil." I think it's quite likely there will be some huge twist around this before all is said and done. But at the same time, I'm also not quite prepared to just swap polarities here, either. I feel we are missing a very LARGE piece of the puzzle that, when we find it, will change many things we believe to be true.

Maybe all of this is true, maybe part of it, or perhaps none of it but it is great to be able to speculate on these possibilities.

Yes! Now you get to try to solve the puzzles along with the rest of us crazy 'Lost' fans! That's what's really fun about it!

[Joolz]

One of the funniest things I've read concerning the blood on Jack's neck in the alt-timeline is:

"Vampires on the plane!" LOL!

Then, someone else says, "Boone bit him!" LOL more!

(The actor who plays Boone, Ian Somerhalder, currently plays a vampire on 'The Vampire Diaries.')

Silly "Lost' fans... It may actually be some silly joke just like this that means nothing more, too. Who knows... but I could see them doing that.

[Joolz]

Hey racehorse (and anyone else who hasn't seen these)!

I didn't realize that the "Mobisodes" (officially called the "Lost: Missing Pieces" videos) I recommended to you are included in the special features of the S4 DVD set. Have you watched them yet? The final one, called "So It Begins," is especially interesting in connection with the mystery surrounding Dr. Christian Shephard.

Anyone else who hasn't seen them, I definitely recommend watching them! If you don't have the DVD set, they are available at YouTube as well. Here's the playlist:

Lost: Missing Pieces

[Swerdloc]

Thanks, Joolz! I had never seen these.

[Joolz]

Thanks, Joolz! I had never seen these.

They're very cool! The last one made my jaw drop! LOL

[racehorse]

They're very cool! The last one made my jaw drop! LOL

Hi, Joolz.

Mine, too. I meant to watch these earlier but didn't and went to the next season immediately. I really enjoyed them. Thanks for the post reminding me. They really are important "missing pieces".

Here are a few brief observations about some of them:

"So It Begins" seems to indicate the "Christian" we see is really Jack's Father and not Jacob or his rival. So that theory is out for me. If not, Why refer to Jack as "my son" to Vincent.

I think I would rather play Ben in Chess than compete against Jin in Golf or anything else. :p

Interesting what Ethan said to Jack about his wife and child if he is believed. And I do. Ethan would have had no reason to lie about that and it really helps explain some of his actions especially regarding Claire.

I don't think Hurley was very worried about competition from Neil Frogurt regarding Libby. Libby had far better taste.

I don't think I ever commented before in any of my reviews but I have thought for some time that Walt may have been being prepared (much as Ben was as a child) to assume leadership of "the others" at a later time. That would explain how he is "special". I am even more sure of it now after Juliet's conversation in the mobisode with Michael.

[Joolz]

Hi, Joolz.

Mine, too. I meant to watch these earlier but didn't and went to the next season immediately. I really enjoyed them. Thanks for the post reminding me. They really are important "missing pieces".

Here are a few brief observations about some of them:

"So It Begins" seems to indicate the "Christian" we see is really Jack's Father and not Jacob or his rival. So that theory is out for me. If not, Why refer to Jack as "my son" to Vincent.

He mentioned his "son" to Locke, too. Remember when Locke was turning the FDW (frozen donkey wheel)? The last thing Christian said was, "Say hello to my son for me!" Locke replied, "Who's your son?!" Then *boom* Locke was flat on his back in the Tunisian desert. So, yeah, I'm not sure what's going on with Christian, either. It COULD be that what/whoever is in control of the body retains the memories of its previous occupant. But we just don't have enough info yet to speculate very accurately on this. Still a BIG mystery, IMO!

And while we're at it, what the heck is up with VINCENT? Did he understand what Christian told him to do? It appeared that he did. There's a whole school of theories out there about Vincent, too. Is he really dead? Is he also "possessed"? (And by whom?) Is HE Smoky?

I think I would rather play Ben in Chess than compete against Jin in Golf or anything else.

LOL Poor Jin!

Interesting what Ethan said to Jack about his wife and child if he is believed. And I do. Ethan would have had no reason to lie about that and it really helps explain some of his actions especially regarding Claire.

Agreed. That little snippet really fleshes out Ethan's character.

I don't think Hurley was very worried about competition from Neil Frogurt regarding Libby. Libby had far better taste.

Frogurt = Ewwwww! Hurley's such a sweetie. Frogurt's... well, Frogurt!

I don't think I ever commented before in any of my reviews but I have thought for some time that Walt may have been being prepared (much as Ben was as a child) to assume leadership of "the others" at a later time. That would explain how he is "special". I am even more sure of it now after Juliet's conversation in the mobisode with Michael.

Interesting theory! You may be on to something there!

[racehorse]

He mentioned his "son" to Locke, too. Remember when Locke was turning the FDW (frozen donkey wheel)? The last thing Christian said was, "Say hello to my son for me!" Locke replied, "Who's your son?!" Then *boom* Locke was flat on his back in the Tunisian desert. So, yeah, I'm not sure what's going on with Christian, either. It COULD be that what/whoever is in control of the body retains the memories of its previous occupant. But we just don't have enough info yet to speculate very accurately on this. Still a BIG mystery, IMO!

And while we're at it, what the heck is up with VINCENT? Did he understand what Christian told him to do? It appeared that he did. There's a whole school of theories out there about Vincent, too. Is he really dead? Is he also "possessed"? (And by whom?) Is HE Smoky?

Yes I remember Christian telling John this. I think it is possible he would have lied to John but I don't think he would have to Vincent.

I agree that what is really going on regarding Christian remains one of the biggest mysteries yet to be revealed.

Like you say, Joolz, we really don't have enough information to speculate very accurately, though.

Great questions about Vincent, too.

[Joolz]

Good point! I suppose he'd have no reason to be manipulative with a dog, eh?

Another question for everyone: Have you seen the "Orchid video" that was shown at Comic-Con in the summer of 2007? It may be on the S3 DVD, but I'm not sure. My daughter has that DVD set right now, so I can't check it. Anyhow, if you haven't seen it, it's really fun! Here's a YouTube of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bTvAUVPyLI (it's about 2 minutes long)

Enjoy! (And imagine the freak-out that this caused in 'Lost' fandom in its day! LOL)

[racehorse]

Another question for everyone: Have you seen the "Orchid video" that was shown at Comic-Con in the summer of 2007? It may be on the S3 DVD, but I'm not sure. My daughter has that DVD set right now, so I can't check it. Anyhow, if you haven't seen it, it's really fun! Here's a YouTube of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bTvAUVPyLI (it's about 2 minutes long)

Thanks, Joolz.

This is not on the Season Three DVD set but should be.

Enjoy! (And imagine the freak-out that this caused in 'Lost' fandom in its day! LOL)

[Joolz]

Oh, you're welcome, of course! I keep remembering all these little things, and figure why not post them? This IS the final season after all... ( )