Action Alert: ABC News Attempts to Hold Bush Accountable

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Post by Conspiracy Theorist » 10-13-2004 06:36 PM

Cherry Kelly wrote: Yaaa Corvid -- one came home and what did he do - met with the enemy in Paris -- while he was still in service (see treason - see military law) - then LIED to the Senate - his words caused serious problems and greater difficulties for the THOUSANDS of POWs -- ya real good man there --

he can run be he cannot hide from his records....


1.) It is not treason if it's not a declared war.

2.) Kerry did NOT lie to the senate. The quotes we keep hearing in those "Swiftvet" commercials are out of context. He said he had talked to returning vets, and that he was told about the atrocities he spoke of.

In any case, it was all the truth. Those things did happen. What Kerry did not talk about was the interrogation and pushing VC suspects out of helicopters a thousand feet in the air to get others to talk. He did not speak of the "special assassination squads," run by the marines that went into villages at night and committed unspeakable mayhem on village officials suspected of being VC sympathizers. If anything, Kerry grossly minimized what he knew in hearings. Sometimes the truth hurts.

I was a proud member of Vietnam Veterans Against the War. And, if it were not for the protests and patriotic orgs like V.V.A.W, we would still be fighting that war.

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Post by Corvid » 10-14-2004 12:09 PM

It never fails.... post a fact, post the truth and then watch as the neocons of the new whirled order run away. Reminds me of crosses and vampires and such.

Thanks for posting the truth, Rick.... and welcome home.

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Post by Corvid » 10-14-2004 12:17 PM

CindyLouWho wrote: Corvid!!!!! .... awesome post!!!!!!!


Standing Ovulation, brother!!



Careful, the neo cons will accuse you of ...uh...."egging" us on. ;)

Then the swift boat vets will say that, not only did John Kerry have a "VC" on his boat..... but that "VC" was an underage bitch! :eek:

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Post by Corvid » 10-15-2004 12:20 AM

I apologize for pirating this thread about nine thousand miles to the east. The thread is about the media. The thread is about the way we come to know many of the things we know. And many of us know those things from the media.

The media, however, has a severe shortcoming.

There is no correlative to the experience.

They can ask much. "How did it feel?", "What were your thoughts?" "What did you see?" What have you done?"

Sometimes they ask policemen these questions. Cuz someone died and that puts them in strange bewilderment.

They cannot find out that way.

They may get the briefest sense of it, of that experience, if they could sit with a vet in a cafe in San Diego, as I have,..... and have him go off in sobs and tears and everyone is looking and you gotta pay the tab and everyone is wondering.... what the hell?

But the media didn't know.

Hell, those reporters or pundits could have sat with me in a fancy cafe on the corner of Moobanpanya and Patanakhan just south of Bangkok twenty three years after the fact and they could have see ME do the same damn thing as my comrade in San Diego.

But they didn't ask.... and I didn't tell them.

And I didn't even kill anyone.

And the dead soldiers I saw were no one I knew.

That must make a difference.... I cannot know. I did not have that experience. That is one reason why I cannot help the Swift Boat Veterans. Because that ordeal was not MY ordeal.

Mothers knew. Fathers were proud.

Only "media" who knew? Bill Mauldin, Ernie Pyle, John Steinbeck, George Orwell maybe Edward R. Murrow and Walter Chronkite. The photographers, David Douglass Duncan...... and the pretty young lady Dickie Chappel who got herself blown apart by a mine in Viet Nam.

So there are images, words and pictures... good ones, powerful ones, evocative ones. Sorta puts you "there". But they don't. Not really.

I want to post images fraom Mai Lai so that people in denial could see just a little.... but Joolz forbids it vehemently and Linnea would plank me and it does not matter because "I" did not see that first hand and no one has the want and few have the courage to share that blood anyway.

But somebody saw it. Many did. And their nightmare is something that I cannot help them with. We must all do our own time. And yet we all share that time.

So let the media air their ignorance and their paid opinion and their lack of that essential experience and their lies and the latest on scott peterson and kobe and watch somebody eat a worm and whatever else silly infotainment they shove in your throat and let them tell you..... as they told you all so often during Viet Nam (I knew better).... that we are winning their hearts and minds in Iraq by blowing the holy sh^t out of them and that every thing is frelling good.

For the sake of your sanity, Cherry Kelly, believe them. If you knew the truth.......... you would go mad.

Courage is so over rated
Last edited by Corvid on 10-15-2004 01:08 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Corvid » 10-15-2004 01:13 AM

Older: "media" the poets. Sassoon, Hardy, Joyce Kilmer, William Butler Yeats

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Post by CindyLouWho » 10-15-2004 01:16 AM

Beautiful Post, Corvid!

That one is a keeper!

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Post by mudwoman » 10-15-2004 01:19 AM

Rick, thank you for the truth - then and now.

Corvid, I type this through my tears. Your words touched me deeply and personally.

Thank you dear men...for everything.

Sandy

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Post by Corvid » 10-15-2004 02:40 PM

Sandy,

I know that you have cared for the broken minds and bodies..... and I wish there were some deep majik which could take away the pain of your memory.

It would seem that the mere passage of time is not sufficient. The knowing is persistent.

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Post by Cherry Kelly » 10-17-2004 12:26 PM

Conspiracy -- I suggestyou look up the V V A W and all the lies put forth by them -- the very lies that Kerry later stated in the Senate as being truths. LOOK them up - its enough to turn your stomach when you find out that some of the so-called statements put forth were done by people who had NEVER been there - who made claims they were mlitary officers - but turns out they weren't -- how they were paid to make testimonies -- its disgusting.

Sorry -- but what you said doesn't cut the mustard when you start looking up MILITARY LAW -- whether its a declared war or not - you DO NOT CONSORT WITH THE ENEMY - period. When you are still IN the military- you do NOT meet with leaders of the "enemy" whether its a war, police action, etc. It IS a violation of military law.

- - -

CORVID - YES there were atrocities such as Mai Lai -- no one denies that these incidents happened. NOW how about some torture pictures of the US Vets in those POW camps?

Or perhaps you want to hear how our troops had to kill children - because those children were carrying bombs into the American compounds -- sounds like whats going on when Saddam told families he'd pay them 25K$ to have their children become bombs. WAR - declared or not is ugly.

- - - -
Media should be held accountable -- maybe a few lawsuits against the media might make them return to sanity... but that is doubtful.

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Post by mudwoman » 10-17-2004 12:37 PM

Corvid wrote: Sandy,

I know that you have cared for the broken minds and bodies..... and I wish there were some deep majik which could take away the pain of your memory.

It would seem that the mere passage of time is not sufficient. The knowing is persistent.
Thank you.

Perhaps there is some deep majik - for you as well. Perhaps there is some majick for all of us, at least to give us the strength to deal with the pain. Maybe we just need to be open to it.

Love to you, Friend.

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Post by Joolz » 10-18-2004 07:30 AM

mudwoman wrote: Maybe we just need to be open to it.

Yes, my friend... YES...
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Post by Devastated » 10-18-2004 07:34 AM

Nice post, Corvid.
You don't have to believe everything that you think...

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Post by Conspiracy Theorist » 10-18-2004 01:36 PM

Cherry Kelly wrote: Conspiracy -- I suggestyou look up the V V A W and all the lies put forth by them -- the very lies that Kerry later stated in the Senate as being truths. LOOK them up - its enough to turn your stomach when you find out that some of the so-called statements put forth were done by people who had NEVER been there - who made claims they were mlitary officers - but turns out they weren't -- how they were paid to make testimonies -- its disgusting.


Yes, there were a lot of crazy radicals in that movement. I don't know about individuals Kerry was quoting, I just know what he spoke of DID go on, and far more than what he said. I do not condemn the soldiers who did it. My own brother participated in atrocities. The only reason I didn't was because I was on an aircraft carrier offshore. But, I talked to plenty of marines at the time, since Marines are part of the Navy. And, despite the stereotype, sailors & marines were always friendly with each other. We didn't get into fights, and tended to listen to what each other had to say.

The war was fought in a way that no end was ever in sight. That kept the economy going rather well. Were it not for the protests, we'd still be there. Treason? I don't know what you'd have thought about me distributing anti-war literature aboard ship when no one was looking, or the 100 officers on the USS Hancock who sponsored a full-page protest ad in the San Francisco Chronicle. We didn't talk to the NVA, but I'm sure many of us would have if given the opportunity. You did what you had to do to undermine support for the war. The only thing I will say was unjustified was Jane Fonda ratting out a POW who tried to sneak her a note saying they were being beaten. Other than that, if liberties were taken, they were justified if they helped end the war 30 years earlier than it would have ended.
Cherry Kelly wrote: Sorry -- but what you said doesn't cut the mustard when you start looking up MILITARY LAW -- whether its a declared war or not - you DO NOT CONSORT WITH THE ENEMY - period. When you are still IN the military- you do NOT meet with leaders of the "enemy" whether its a war, police action, etc. It IS a violation of military law.


I'm not sure who he met with, but it sounds as if he tried to talk to the peace negotiators in Paris. Many other groups did the same thing, and no one was ever charged. By that time, most believed Nixon was the real enemy. From a legal standpoint you may be correct, though. Sometimes the law has to be nullified through individual and group action.

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Post by CindyLouWho » 10-18-2004 03:01 PM

Conspiracy Theorist wrote: <snip>
The war was fought in a way that no end was ever in sight. That kept the economy going rather well. Were it not for the protests, we'd still be there. Treason? I don't know what you'd have thought about me distributing anti-war literature aboard ship when no one was looking, or the 100 officers on the USS Hancock who sponsored a full-page protest ad in the San Francisco Chronicle. We didn't talk to the NVA, but I'm sure many of us would have if given the opportunity. You did what you had to do to undermine support for the war. </snip>


Wow, CT .. I didn't realize this about you. My respect and my gratitude have multiplied ten-fold, for both you and our brother Corvid!

With much peace & love!
Cindy

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