Are you going to vote for Nader?

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Iris
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Are you going to vote for Nader?

Post by Iris » 10-06-2004 10:26 PM

October 6, 2004

It’s All About Bush
by John Stauber

Ralph Nader has been publicly complaining because the overwhelming majority of those of us whom he asked to be his formal endorsers in 2000 have united this year to support John Kerry in swing states. A list of the seventy-five Nader 2000 Citizens Committee members now urging support for Kerry is online at our website <http://www.vote2stopbush.org>. It includes Barbara Ehrenreich, Phil Donahue, Jim Hightower, Susan Sarandon, Noam Chomsky, Ben Cohen, Peter Coyote, Granny D, Manning Marable, Bonnie Raitt, Tim Robbins, Studs Terkel, Rabbi Michael Lerner, Eddie Vedder, Cornel West and Howard Zinn.

In an interview with Amy Goodman on Democracy Now Nader dismissed us as having suffered "a total loss of nerve." In the past he’s called us "scared liberals." Sorry Ralph, but the reality is that this election is a referendum on George Bush. In the real world the only way to dump Bush is to mobilize voters for Kerry in swing states, and that is our goal. Other than John Kerry, Ralph Nader could do the most to defeat Bush if he were willing to help lead a united front against him, but he is not.

We who were the Nader 2000 Citizens Committee obviously have huge disagreements with Kerry on Iraq and other issues. But this election is not about Ralph Nader or John Kerry, it’s about getting rid of George Bush and ending the far-right domination of all branches of the federal government.

The world changed after 9/11 when the Bush administration exploited that horrific attack for political and ideological purposes, using it as an opportunity to launch an unjustified and frankly stupid first-strike war against Iraq. Sheldon Rampton and I have documented in our books "Banana Republicans" and "Weapons of Mass Deception" how the Bush administration has set a tone and enacted measures undermining our liberties. Bush and Cheney are pursuing a reckless and deadly foreign policy of war and empire that has turned the world’s outpouring of sympathy after 9/11 into a deep fear and loathing of America.

Much of the leadership of the Democratic Party — including Kerry and Edwards — rubber stamped the actions of the Republicans in going to war in Iraq and in undermining civil liberties. Led by the right-wing media echo chamber at Fox TV and on talk radio, the mainstream corporate media became cheerleaders for Bush’s war on Iraq. The Republicans brilliantly used their march to war to win control of both houses of the Congress in 2002. For the first time since 1932 the Republicans now control the Supreme Court, the Congress, the Senate and the White House. They also control most governorships and state legislatures.

Those of us who were Ralph Nader’s official endorsers in 2000 have no illusions about John Kerry, the Democratic Party, or our need to mobilize and organize for fundamental social and political change here in the United States. We believe that the first step to progressive change is uniting to defeat George Bush and Dick Cheney. On November 2nd we Americans will have our only opportunity to remove Bush from office. If we fail to stop Bush, we will send a loud message around the world that the American people support and ratify what the Bush regime has done. November 2nd is people’s impeachment day in America and the choice is simple. The only vote that will work to remove George Bush is a vote for John Kerry in battleground states.

Ralph Nader made a strategic mistake in running this year for president. To date he has primarily divided green voters and spent most of his time and energy attacking Democrats or his former allies. I spoke with Ralph a year ago and asked him not to run but rather to lead a movement to defeat Bush and end Republican domination by supporting the Democratic nominee. He replied, "If I did that, they would ignore me. I would get no attention."

Ralph Nader denies that his candidacy helps Bush, but Republicans, Democrats and most political analysts agree that it does. The October 4, 2004 Zogby poll concluded "there is little doubt that Ralph Nader is hurting Kerry." It is true that Democratic party leaders are conducting a widespread and often unethical campaign to keep Nader off state ballots. This ham-fisted effort led by former Monsanto executive and lobbyist Toby Moffett has gained the Nader candidacy sympathy in the press and bolstered the resolve of Nader supporters to vote for Ralph.

The situation will no doubt get uglier as the election nears and Ralph Nader and the Green Party candidate David Cobb stump for votes in swing states. It is important that we keep one goal in sight, rejecting George Bush. I urge everyone who like me lives in a battleground state to help defeat George Bush by pulling the lever for John Kerry.

A BUZZFLASH GUEST CONTRIBUTION

John Stauber is a co-founder of http://www.vote2stopbush.org/ and the co-author of five books including Banana Republicans, Weapons of Mass Deception, Mad Cow USA and Toxic Sludge is Good For You. These are his personal views and not those of any organization with which he is affiliated.

http://www.buzzflash.com/
We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. B. Franklin

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Re: Are you going to vote for Nader?

Post by Joolz » 10-07-2004 02:00 AM

Sorry Ralph, but the reality is that this election is a referendum on George Bush. In the real world the only way to dump Bush is to mobilize voters for Kerry in swing states, and that is our goal.
Yes, this IS the issue. And the reality.
We believe that the first step to progressive change is uniting to defeat George Bush and Dick Cheney. On November 2nd we Americans will have our only opportunity to remove Bush from office. If we fail to stop Bush, we will send a loud message around the world that the American people support and ratify what the Bush regime has done. November 2nd is people’s impeachment day in America and the choice is simple. The only vote that will work to remove George Bush is a vote for John Kerry in battleground states.
Another excellent point, and one that I totally agree with.

In another time, another election, I could easily and willingly support a third party candidate (although it would NOT ever be Ralph)--as I have in the past, and sincerely HOPE to be able to do so in the future--but not this time.
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Post by Conspiracy Theorist » 10-15-2004 11:59 AM

It's so sad, really. Ralph Nader was a hero to so many of us for so long. There was a time that he probably deserved a prominent cabinet post.

But, if he succeeds in throwing the election to Bush for the 2nd time, and as a result we get stuck with a right-wing extremist Supreme Court for the next 30 years, Nader's good name will have been badly tarnished. And, for what? So he could have a platform in a national election he had no chance of winning?

I remember Bill Mahr and Michael Moore getting down on thier knees, saying "we love you dearly, but please get out of the election!"

I would gladly have joined them.

As a person, I love Ralph Nader. But, I hate his bullheaded stubbornness.

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Post by dotcosm » 10-15-2004 01:31 PM

Conspiracy Theorist wrote: It's so sad, really. Ralph Nader was a hero to so many of us for so long. There was a time that he probably deserved a prominent cabinet post.

But, if he succeeds in throwing the election to Bush for the 2nd time, and as a result we get stuck with a right-wing extremist Supreme Court for the next 30 years, Nader's good name will have been badly tarnished. And, for what? So he could have a platform in a national election he had no chance of winning?

I remember Bill Mahr and Michael Moore getting down on thier knees, saying "we love you dearly, but please get out of the election!"

I would gladly have joined them.

As a person, I love Ralph Nader. But, I hate his bullheaded stubbornness.
Agree completely. For everything there is a time. Now is not the time. Wisdom is knowing the right time. Ralph doesn't know the right time. He isn't wise. I will never, ever support him again (unless he drops out and wises up at the last minute, or soon).

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Post by dotcosm » 10-15-2004 01:40 PM

Bobcat wrote: I say be true to your heart. If you believe Nader to be the best pick for President than vote for him. Don't let Democrats bully you into voting for their weak and uninvigorating candidate. Send a message with your vote. Vote Nader not Kerry.
What a disingenuous creepy thing to say.

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Post by dotcosm » 10-15-2004 01:53 PM

Bobcat wrote: I have to disagree with you dotcosm.

You don't think you are being bullied and lied to by the Democrats? Their whole mantra is a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush. That is creepy and disingenuous. Nader attracts voters from both parties, as last election statistics showed. You should always vote for who you think is best for the country. If you think Nader is then vote for him. If not you aren't being true to yourself or the voting process.
Read the original post in this thread. It is not about Nader or Kerry. It is about Bush. And it's really that simple.

And furthermore, I live in California, I actually could vote for Nader with a clean conscience but there's no way in hell I would in this election.

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Post by Conspiracy Theorist » 10-15-2004 03:25 PM

The primary directive in this election is to get rid of Bush. And, in order to do that, it is necessary to vote for the candidate who has the best chance of beating Bush.

And, Kerry isn't the lesser of two evils. While he isn't promising to pull the troops out of Iraq, consider:

1.) Supreme Court Nominations.
2.) Ending tax breaks for outsourcing.
3.) Increased Federal Funding of good science, like embryonic stem cell research and new fuel technology, such as hydrogen.

Just a few of the issues that ought to be important to everyone. A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush. Period.

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Post by gormworm » 10-21-2004 12:52 AM

Bobcat wrote: I say be true to your heart. If you believe Nader to be the best pick for President than vote for him. Don't let Democrats bully you into voting for their weak and uninvigorating candidate. Send a message with your vote. Vote Nader not Kerry.


I agree.

Except that the big issue in this election, ... to ME, anyway, ... is the dismantling of the constitution that's underway via the PATRIOT ACT and the "WAR on TERROR".

Both Kerry & Bush agree that the PATRIOT ACT is necessary.
Although Kerry says that he will make changes to the PATRIOT ACT "where changes are needed".

Replacing Bush with Kerry will not repair the damage that has been, and is being done to our constitution, and our rights as Americans.

Michael Badnarik is the fellow who is looking at the CONSTITUTIONAL, and LAWFUL aspects of what is going on here.

The PATRIOT ACT is unconstitutional.
It was improperly enacted.
It violates the constitutional rights of Americans.

Badnarik is the designated Libertarian candidate who appears on the ballot in 48 states.

The whole problem here, ... is that there is no unity behind us having a third party candidate in this election.

Nader is a famous guy and everything.
But, it's Badnarik and the Libertarian platform that directly addresses the constitutional crisis that's going on here.
Not Nader.

Oh well.

It was a nice constitution while it lasted.

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Post by smadewell » 10-24-2004 12:06 AM

Am I going to vote for Nader? I wouldn't even if I could. I'd probably vote Libertarian, if I could, but ... I live in the great State of Jokelahoma, which only last year passed a law against cock fighting. Perhaps in another 100 years or so ... this rat hole of a state might just pass a law that'll allow other than Republican and Democratic candidates to be placed on the presidential ballot.... ::::yeah right! as if!::::

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Post by CaptainBeyond » 10-24-2004 09:05 AM

I voted to support the Constitution.This government of ours is NOT a Democracy,it is a Representitive Republic.We have been mislead on the whole democracy issue and it's meaning has been clouded.

Our legislative body is supposed to make laws,not activist judges.Some people need to go back and read the Constitution.

Vote Libertarian!Support the Constitution!!!!!!!


:-)

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Post by Conspiracy Theorist » 10-24-2004 02:12 PM

CaptainBeyond wrote: I voted to support the Constitution.This government of ours is NOT a Democracy,it is a Representitive Republic.We have been mislead on the whole democracy issue and it's meaning has been clouded.

Our legislative body is supposed to make laws,not activist judges.Some people need to go back and read the Constitution.

Vote Libertarian!Support the Constitution!!!!!!!


:-)


Judges are supposed to INTERPRET laws. Sometimes, a reasonable inferrance must be made, unless you prefer literalism.

Case in point: A Texas "strict constructionist" judge, appointed in that state upheld a conviction in a death penalty case. The court-apponted attorney had slept through the trial. He never raised one objection or called a single witness. He never cross-examined any prosecution witness. He just sat and slept, and the man...who may very well have been guilty...was convicted and sentenced to death.

The appeal, based on the 6th Amendment right to an attorney, was based on ineffective assistance of counsel. Sounds like a no-brainer, right?

Well, the constructionist judge upheld the conviction, stating "The 6th Amendment only says you have to have an attorney, it does NOT say he has to be awake."

Now, had the judge ruled the attorney must be awake, would it really be judicial activism for him to have drawn this small inferrance?

Because it's situations like this where right-wing politicians scream about "judicial activism." They demand rigid literalism.

Yeah...and the Earth was created in 6 days, 6,000 years ago.

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Post by CaptainBeyond » 10-24-2004 02:34 PM

6 days?6,000 years?You have obviously not read many of my postings, Hoss.

I also find the sleeping attorney story a bit more than suspect.No presiding judge gonna allow such disrespect in their court.

:-)

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Post by smadewell » 10-24-2004 03:51 PM

CaptainBeyond wrote: I voted to support the Constitution.This government of ours is NOT a Democracy,it is a Representitive Republic.We have been mislead on the whole democracy issue and it's meaning has been clouded.

Our legislative body is supposed to make laws,not activist judges.Some people need to go back and read the Constitution.

Vote Libertarian!Support the Constitution!!!!!!!


:-)


Right on, Capt! Them's my feelings too! Maybe we'll get our Constitutional Government back after John Titor's Civil War and after the Russkies nuke the big cities and thereby take out the PTBs and their minions, who, if they survive the nukes, will surely be hunted down and give their just deserts after the dust clears. Penitenz-agite!
S.Madewell - "If the truth shall kill a man ... let him die!"

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Post by Gotrox » 10-25-2004 07:19 AM

If you buy the bs that a vote for "a" is really a vote for "b" or takes a vote away from "c", you are not contributing to the process----just being one of the "sheeple"--- if you can't think for yourself, just leave the ballot blank and let the thinking people choose a leader.

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Post by CaptainBeyond » 10-25-2004 08:33 AM

Smadewell,you a barrel of laughs!

:-)

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