Why Church and State are Out of Date

[jeri sexton]

Morpheus' the god of dreams, son of Hypnos.

So what is everyone dreaming about these days/nights?

What fond hope or aspiration comes to mind?

Is the collective got their collective eye on that 100th monkey? yes, i think so...

I wonder what the first rule of thumb would be in this new dream world.
Any suggestions?

Does one have to sleep to have a dream?
or be awakened, and find themselves alone in this vision, and
then begin to live this dream?

Off in the distance I hear birds singing' .. I wonder what they dream about.
How high can i fly today?

[Devastated]

Ready and willing, but.....huh?

[Iris]

What do YOU all think YOU can do to stop the current insanity and insure a better future?

[Iris]

Okay, I'll start.

One of the ideas I was thinking of was for us to compose a post... something that would help people get started... or maybe several posts... and start them circulating wide and far. Send them to ten people, and ask them to do the same, and so on.

Also, if we put something good together... I'm sure many of you could think of many good ways to distribute it in your neighborhoods. Jeri already came up with a great idea on that in another post in P&G.

I think collectively we could all come up with LOTS of ideas about what we can all do to make a difference -- including asking everyone (in the world) to do an "Art Bell" type of meditation/prayer once a day (like noon, their time?) to bring about the changes we want to see.

To get everyone on the same wavelength, I'm going to copy a post here I posted tp P&G tonight, in case anyone missed it:

Please -- everyone -- go HERE and listen to at least the first four of David Icke's clips. That will put us all on the same page.

You can also hear Rense interview Icke HERE. The date you want is 12-03-03.

If you can't listen to audio on your computer, or if you want more, Truett has a (legal) e-book written by Icke that he offered to send to any pirate who wants a copy. You can see his post and ask him HERE.

Also, I notice that Midnight Moses has posted a SUPER post about what we can do (right down Icke's alley) HERE. Please go read it -- but you're going to understand it differently after you've listened to the first group (above) of Icke clips.

Several of the pirates I think are way ahead of me on this. Midnight Moses, Truett, and Alphacentura come to my mind right away. Other Lightworkers I know of here are Joolz, and Linnea. You probably know others. Let's get them together with us here and brainstorm this thing. I'm sure lots of pirates would be interested, so please invite whomever you think will add something -- or get something out of this and want to help. Write them a PM or an email and request their presence on this thread in Blue Planet and their help.

We CAN make a difference! And the most important step of all is to BELIEVE!!!

We are the power in everyone,
We are the dance of the moon and the sun,
We are the hope that will never hide,
We are the turning of the tide.
- David Icke

[Linnea]

Iris - It might be helpful it you could summarize some of the David Icke material for us. I haven't read much of what he has written, although he had a great interview with - was it Noory - a few months ago? Did you go to his conference here in Seattle this year? I also agree we should keep our posts here in the Blue Planet thread.

One thing I will do - is join with Media Access (heard on interview today on NPR about this group, and the about the lawsuit they are pursuing against the FCC and the gov't about this recent expansion of mega corporation media control) - will have to find a link - and moveon.org and the grass roots/internet communities that have been supporting Dean and Clark - and with Al Gore, Franken in his effort to host a progressive radio network. This is where I feel we can be very effective the effort to regain more local control of information, communities - etc...

I will start a thread here, as soon as I check out where others are in this fight. Mabe Jeri will help me do some research How about it Jeri?

[jeri sexton]

Sure Linnea..
After i stop crying...

[Iris]

Iris - It might be helpful it you could summarize some of the David Icke material for us. I haven't read much of what he has written, although he had a great interview with - was it Noory - a few months ago? Did you go to his conference here in Seattle this year? I also agree we should keep our posts here in the Blue Planet thread.

If you can listen to a couple of clips from that first URL I gave, it would really help, as David describes it SO much better than I can, Linn. That said, the crux is that "they" can only do what they do with our consent. They program us through the media, to think we have no other choice, that everyone else is going along with them... when that's not true. We need to get wise to how we're being programmed, and what's going on. We need to realize we are all one, all connected, part of the whole, and as such we can tap into all knowledge/wisdom, and by how we think, we can change everything. I don't think I just did a good job on this at all, and I do wish you would go hear a clip or two. It's very interesting stuff.

No, I didn't see David when he was in Seattle, did you?

~~

There is a great deal that can be done. One that strikes me as urgent is to wake everyone up to what Walmart is doing -- really single-handedly destroying this country. I can post more on that later with lots of details. If people really understood what's happening there, they would NEVER shop there, no matter what. Walmart/Sam's Club has the #1 responsibility for our job loss. So shopping there is a vote for America reaching third world status fast.

That's one area where we can raise consciousness to save our country. There are many more. But I don't want to supply all of the ideas here, either. I want to know what you all think we could do.

[LisaA]

Number one thing for bringing about the next stage: Be self-governing individuals.

[Iris]

I agree with you, Lisa, and I'd love it if you'd say a little more about that.

We need to raise consciousness, massively and quickly.

Another thing we can all do is to copy the news articles folks post in FF that will educate, and send them out to our friends in email.

Another thing to do is get Alex Jones' videos, make copies (he wants you to) and give them away as gifts and loan them to your neighbors. Do any of you have any of his videos? You can also email out his URLs to friends and ask them to pass them on. For anyone who doesn't know the URLs:
http://www.infowars.com
http://www.prisonplanet.com

Another good site to turn people on to is http://www.rense.com and show them how to listen to Jeff's archives.

[alphacentaura]

Although this is an old interview with David Icke, I thought I'd post some of the content here, as I beleive it is still extremely relative not only to our current global situation, but also to our role within it.

From: http://www.davidicke.com

"Icke is travelling around the world explaining the danger to the future of our planet posed by the present worldwide economic system now dominated and controlled by a secret, global elite. The bottom line of this 'system' is 'economic growth' which economists claim leads to more jobs, more wealth (for the elite), more economic 'success,' etc. This couldn't be more simple, but in truth it is a take, make and throw away system which increases the rate and amount of irreplaceable resources we take from the planet every year. It increases the speed at which these products, most of which we don't need, are made obsolete or wear out so that people are forced to buy the same products again and again in order to generate ever greater increases in production. This, in turn, leads to the increase in the amount of natural resources now called waste and rubbish that we throw away every year.

Environmental Assassins
It must have taken a genius to come up with it because, as Icke says, "It is the perfect environmental and human assassin and yet it is the system that controls the world and the minds of its people. In short, for the present system to survive and increase production every year, it is essential that we rape the planet for more and more resources and poison her with ever more pollution. This is the system supported by every major political movement in the world, except for the Greens. This is the conventional 'wisdom' that is destroying the earth."

Surrendering Individuality
"Also, in our present global system, individual countries surrender control of their own destiny as other countries produce cheaper products utilizing low-wage workers, and often new, but environmentally and socially destructive technology. Unemployment rises in those countries which can't compete, but what of those that do have jobs. They spend most of their time working in factories and offices producing these trinkets to buy even more trinkets that someone else is also spending their lives in factories and offices making."


The Human Sheep-Pen
"Whatever happened to living? The vast majority of people, rich and poor, on this planet are enslaved. Enslaved by the system's robotic programming, its economic imprisonment, and by their own refusal to think, question and find the liberation that comes with an open mind. We don't live in a free society, we live as robots in a society in which you are free to do what the society wants you to do - produce and consume - that's the reality."


The Few Controlling the Mass
Icke has been able to carry out a detailed analysis which fits together past and present world events which appear to occur independently of each other, but in truth have the same people pulling the strings in all of them. It's becoming increasingly true that a very few people control the world by persuading and pressuring the population through fear to think the way they want them to act and think, or preferably, not to act or think independently at all. Currently, four multinational corporations control 90% of the global media.

The Hassle-Free Zone
He explains: "What happens in practice is that if you look at all the dogmas in all cultures, all societies have what I call a 'hassle-free zone.' It is that area within any culture, within each dogma (religious, economic, political etc) wherein if you conform to it, you are in the comfort zone. No one's going to laugh at you, condemn you for being different, or for expressing your uniqueness, because you are locked into the herd mentality, and you are conforming to what you are told you should be and do. When you step out of this mind-set and express your unique aspect of all that exists and refuse to be frightened, or controlled, you immediately face ridicule or condemnation as I have in England."


Giving our Minds away
In his talks, Icke connects and links conspiracy ideas with the spiritual. He first explains how we are giving our minds away and the means through which we are conditioned to do that. He discloses a vast number of names and organizations which are very famous, and of people who are in the controlling hierarchy, including the US President. He says, "I do not do this out of condemnation because the people involved are expressing their own state of being at the time, they are also reflecting back to us the collective human mind itself and the results of our own lack of personal responsibility and integrity. I think that it is important to do this first."

"Oppo-Sames"
"I also point out how the same people on apparently different sides of politics are actually connected to the same elite organizations. These organizations have the same proven agenda of a world government, a world central bank, a world army, a world currency, and some say a microchipped population. These apparent opposites in politics are there to persuade us that we are not living in a prison, that we have a choice. Yet these persons are not opposites at all but are part of a one-party state. The last two US Presidents were apparently opposites and on different sides - Bill Clinton and George Bush - yet they were both heavily involved within the same elite organizations."

Of Myths and Media
"The media and politicians have a cosy unwritten agreement that projects a myth to people which is that prime ministers, presidents, and high-ranking politicians are the top of the decision-making pyramid in the world. They then walk around the world stage and act as if they are the final arbiters of power. The media goes along with this, which means that the echelons above the Clintons, who actually pull the strings, never get researched and investigated because they are invisible to the public. These are the individuals who decide who becomes president because they own the money and the media. The President is only the most famous front-man in the world."

Introduce Love and Compassion
"This is also why movements for social, economic, and environmental changes are ineffective. They are unable to change the system because they are actually forced to be part of the system to survive. All of their resources are expended on the front-men while the real power acts subversively behind the scenes to perpetrate the system as it is now. Also, through non-profit foundations operated by the elite, many are infiltrated by agents who turn the movements into vehicles to promote the system. Most activists attack the elements of the system they can perceive with anger, blame, and often violence. From a spiritual perspective, it is only possible to transform the negative consciousness of the system with love and compassion. This is why it is so necessary at this time to move to a higher state of consciousness to solve our world problems."

Mass Mind Control
A mass mind-controlling technique which is used by these elite organizations all the time is the 'problem-reaction-solution.' A problem is covertly created (by the CIA, KGB, etc) and someone is blamed for the problem. The culprit might be a war, a run on the currency, national debt, or a government collapse. It can be anything. The media is used to stimulate public opinion in relationship to the created problem so that the public cries out, "Something must be done!" At that point, those who created the problem openly offer the solution as a means of getting what they wanted all along.

Conspiracy vs Spiritual
Icke operates on two different levels, the here-and-now, the conspiratorial research level to assess what is actually taking place, and the spiritual which demonstrates that if you take your mind away, there are physical consequences. He says, "If we take our personal and spiritual power back, stop being a herd of sheep and express our unique, divine individuality, then the ability of a few to control our world disappears. Once people realize they can control their own lives, that their own power exists within them rather than outside of themselves ... the game is over for the global elite. You don't need a gun. You don't need another political party. You don't need another smoke-filled room, protest group, or rally. All you need is to celebrate your uniqueness, de-link from the robotic herd mentality, and respect everybody's right to do the same. Suddenly we have removed the (energy) vehicle through which a global conspiracy can operate our herd mentality."

"Problem, Reaction, Solution" as defined by Icke:

The technique I call problem - reaction - solution. You secretly create a problem and ensure that someone else is blamed for it; you manipulate public opinion to demand that "something must be done" about that problem; then you openly offer the solution to the "problem" you have created - the very "solution" you planned from the start.

Guess we don't have to look either hard or long to clearly see demonstrative evidence or PRS (problem reaction solution). ...911 to 'terrorist/evil doers' to Partiot Acts I & II to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.....yup, sure looks like it.

Sadly this model can be applied to most know history and has been successfully used by the power elite of government, clergy, monarchy etc.

I agree with Icke that by playing into or participating in the game or the projected matrix. we both perpetuate it, give it power and by doing so allow it to exist and continue.

This certainly is a first and most important step.....however, is it enough? What and how do we move this energy to critical mass?....that's where I really struggle.

"Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it."
— George Santayana.

Diocletian's Problem-Reaction-Solution
Historical Evidence of Problem, Reaction, Solution
Bosnia/Oklahoma Bombing
PRS & 911
Perpetual Principle Part I
Perpetual Principle Part II
Manipulation
Icke PRS & TAKING THE POWER BACK Free Audio Clips Here

[arwen]

Although this is an old interview with David Icke, I thought I'd post some of the content here, as I beleive it is still extremely relative not only to our current global situation, but also to our role within it.

From: http://www.davidicke.com

"Icke is travelling around the world explaining the danger to the future of our planet posed by the present worldwide economic system now dominated and controlled by a secret, global elite. The bottom line of this 'system' is 'economic growth' which economists claim leads to more jobs, more wealth (for the elite), more economic 'success,' etc. This couldn't be more simple, but in truth it is a take, make and throw away system which increases the rate and amount of irreplaceable resources we take from the planet every year. It increases the speed at which these products, most of which we don't need, are made obsolete or wear out so that people are forced to buy the same products again and again in order to generate ever greater increases in production. This, in turn, leads to the increase in the amount of natural resources now called waste and rubbish that we throw away every year.

Environmental Assassins
It must have taken a genius to come up with it because, as Icke says, "It is the perfect environmental and human assassin and yet it is the system that controls the world and the minds of its people. In short, for the present system to survive and increase production every year, it is essential that we rape the planet for more and more resources and poison her with ever more pollution. This is the system supported by every major political movement in the world, except for the Greens. This is the conventional 'wisdom' that is destroying the earth."

Surrendering Individuality
"Also, in our present global system, individual countries surrender control of their own destiny as other countries produce cheaper products utilizing low-wage workers, and often new, but environmentally and socially destructive technology. Unemployment rises in those countries which can't compete, but what of those that do have jobs. They spend most of their time working in factories and offices producing these trinkets to buy even more trinkets that someone else is also spending their lives in factories and offices making."


The Human Sheep-Pen
"Whatever happened to living? The vast majority of people, rich and poor, on this planet are enslaved. Enslaved by the system's robotic programming, its economic imprisonment, and by their own refusal to think, question and find the liberation that comes with an open mind. We don't live in a free society, we live as robots in a society in which you are free to do what the society wants you to do - produce and consume - that's the reality."


The Few Controlling the Mass
Icke has been able to carry out a detailed analysis which fits together past and present world events which appear to occur independently of each other, but in truth have the same people pulling the strings in all of them. It's becoming increasingly true that a very few people control the world by persuading and pressuring the population through fear to think the way they want them to act and think, or preferably, not to act or think independently at all. Currently, four multinational corporations control 90% of the global media.

The Hassle-Free Zone
He explains: "What happens in practice is that if you look at all the dogmas in all cultures, all societies have what I call a 'hassle-free zone.' It is that area within any culture, within each dogma (religious, economic, political etc) wherein if you conform to it, you are in the comfort zone. No one's going to laugh at you, condemn you for being different, or for expressing your uniqueness, because you are locked into the herd mentality, and you are conforming to what you are told you should be and do. When you step out of this mind-set and express your unique aspect of all that exists and refuse to be frightened, or controlled, you immediately face ridicule or condemnation as I have in England."


Giving our Minds away
In his talks, Icke connects and links conspiracy ideas with the spiritual. He first explains how we are giving our minds away and the means through which we are conditioned to do that. He discloses a vast number of names and organizations which are very famous, and of people who are in the controlling hierarchy, including the US President. He says, "I do not do this out of condemnation because the people involved are expressing their own state of being at the time, they are also reflecting back to us the collective human mind itself and the results of our own lack of personal responsibility and integrity. I think that it is important to do this first."

"Oppo-Sames"
"I also point out how the same people on apparently different sides of politics are actually connected to the same elite organizations. These organizations have the same proven agenda of a world government, a world central bank, a world army, a world currency, and some say a microchipped population. These apparent opposites in politics are there to persuade us that we are not living in a prison, that we have a choice. Yet these persons are not opposites at all but are part of a one-party state. The last two US Presidents were apparently opposites and on different sides - Bill Clinton and George Bush - yet they were both heavily involved within the same elite organizations."

Of Myths and Media
"The media and politicians have a cosy unwritten agreement that projects a myth to people which is that prime ministers, presidents, and high-ranking politicians are the top of the decision-making pyramid in the world. They then walk around the world stage and act as if they are the final arbiters of power. The media goes along with this, which means that the echelons above the Clintons, who actually pull the strings, never get researched and investigated because they are invisible to the public. These are the individuals who decide who becomes president because they own the money and the media. The President is only the most famous front-man in the world."

Introduce Love and Compassion
"This is also why movements for social, economic, and environmental changes are ineffective. They are unable to change the system because they are actually forced to be part of the system to survive. All of their resources are expended on the front-men while the real power acts subversively behind the scenes to perpetrate the system as it is now. Also, through non-profit foundations operated by the elite, many are infiltrated by agents who turn the movements into vehicles to promote the system. Most activists attack the elements of the system they can perceive with anger, blame, and often violence. From a spiritual perspective, it is only possible to transform the negative consciousness of the system with love and compassion. This is why it is so necessary at this time to move to a higher state of consciousness to solve our world problems."

Mass Mind Control
A mass mind-controlling technique which is used by these elite organizations all the time is the 'problem-reaction-solution.' A problem is covertly created (by the CIA, KGB, etc) and someone is blamed for the problem. The culprit might be a war, a run on the currency, national debt, or a government collapse. It can be anything. The media is used to stimulate public opinion in relationship to the created problem so that the public cries out, "Something must be done!" At that point, those who created the problem openly offer the solution as a means of getting what they wanted all along.

Conspiracy vs Spiritual
Icke operates on two different levels, the here-and-now, the conspiratorial research level to assess what is actually taking place, and the spiritual which demonstrates that if you take your mind away, there are physical consequences. He says, "If we take our personal and spiritual power back, stop being a herd of sheep and express our unique, divine individuality, then the ability of a few to control our world disappears. Once people realize they can control their own lives, that their own power exists within them rather than outside of themselves ... the game is over for the global elite. You don't need a gun. You don't need another political party. You don't need another smoke-filled room, protest group, or rally. All you need is to celebrate your uniqueness, de-link from the robotic herd mentality, and respect everybody's right to do the same. Suddenly we have removed the (energy) vehicle through which a global conspiracy can operate our herd mentality."

"Problem, Reaction, Solution" as defined by Icke:

The technique I call problem - reaction - solution. You secretly create a problem and ensure that someone else is blamed for it; you manipulate public opinion to demand that "something must be done" about that problem; then you openly offer the solution to the "problem" you have created - the very "solution" you planned from the start.

Guess we don't have to look either hard or long to clearly see demonstrative evidence or PRS (problem reaction solution). ...911 to 'terrorist/evil doers' to Partiot Acts I & II to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.....yup, sure looks like it.

Sadly this model can be applied to most know history and has been successfully used by the power elite of government, clergy, monarchy etc.

I agree with Icke that by playing into or participating in the game or the projected matrix. we both perpetuate it, give it power and by doing so allow it to exist and continue.

This certainly is a first and most important step.....however, is it enough? What and how do we move this energy to critical mass?....that's where I really struggle.

"Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it."
— George Santayana.

Diocletian's Problem-Reaction-Solution
Historical Evidence of Problem, Reaction, Solution
Bosnia/Oklahoma Bombing
PRS & 911
Perpetual Principle Part I
Perpetual Principle Part II
Manipulation
Icke PRS & TAKING THE POWER BACK Free Audio Clips Here

Thank you Alphacentauri,

It took me awhile to get through all the material you posted and I'll be sleeping alot less thinking about it.

I hope that everyone gets a chance to read what you wrote.

The audio clips were extremely enlightening.

[Pastor Dave]

Lots of great posting here! Churches have far too much input into how the country is run, however I feel that churches are much less of a threat than the media which is the form of mind control replacing religion - since church membership has decreased significantly decade by decade.

Also, I like the activism some of the posts are showing to bring about change - a pirate grassroots movement! For me, I've been working within the church system to help bring about change - not an easy task, which is why I was very grateful when one of the pirates posted an article about Clergy Leadership Network which I have joined and is a nice alternative to the many conservative clergy groups out there.

I'd like to also add that it can be helpful for people to be in community with each other. And I do agree with several of the posts here that churches do and say crazy things, but a community of support on a faith journey can be a good thing - if you find a community that fits you where you are at on your journey. (Check out Sylvia Browne's website - it's an example of a church that is not like a stereotypical church. She'll be on C2C again this coming week.) Anyway, my point is community with others - like here at FF!

[Joolz]

Originally posted by Pastor Dave
which is why I was very grateful when one of the pirates posted an article about Clergy Leadership Network which I have joined and is a nice alternative to the many conservative clergy groups out there.

That would be me. And I'm SO glad to hear that you joined them! That's awesome. I agree with the rest of your comments as well. You give me hope.

[Pastor Dave]

Thanks again Joolz! A very cool connection was made because of that post.

[Iris]

Wow!

I've been working on a move to a different home, so please forgive my occasional lapses -- the moving van arrives Thursday morning to pick up all my furniture. I am really heartened to see so many kewl pirates joining in on this thread.

Alpha, thanks so much for posting all the kewl material and the links. I'll definitely check them out.