Malachi Martin stirred many passions.

deeremom · Post by **deeremom** » 03-30-2002 01:16 PM

Ditto what Maryals said.

Thank you Anya! I had not read the articles you posted.

Mercury · Post by **Mercury** » 04-01-2002 01:55 AM

Elk said: "I read, (Link from Arts site) lead me to believe that someone had an axe to grind. Put it aside folks, and keep your beliefs, whatever they may be, intact and close to your heart. "

It all depends on whose axe one is grinding? Art has his axes to grind and Martin had his. Too bad Martin is dead, but that does not imunize him from criticisim. He railed aginst fornicators, homosexuals, the vernacular mass and devils, and now it seems he may have been a devil himself. You may not find this noteworthy, but I do. The grave is not a shield for hypocrites as far as I'm concerned. So I see no reason to put aside the truth, whatever it may be. If Martin is innocent, you have nothing to worry about. Let's see what unfolds.

[This message has been edited by Mercury (edited 31 March 2002).]

Cherry Kelly · Post by **Cherry Kelly** » 04-01-2002 11:08 AM

Mercury - where's the proof? This is often a criteria - we tend to accept at face value without looking deeper.

The terms youare using make me tend to believe that you are accepting the writer on face value without proof. The guy is a writer - a journalist. IF one thinks about what journalists do for a living - an old adage comes to mind - you write what sells - and what sells better than 'sex' or 'juicy stories' -- ?? AND especially about prominent figures who may not be alive to protest or disprove.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » 04-01-2002 08:28 PM

Elk , take a journalist's word for ANYTHING ? Well...here ya go !

-Mark

Hilda Sophia · Post by **Hilda Sophia** » 04-05-2002 05:10 PM

A person on another board said that finally Kathleen Keating has made a comment about this charge. She says none of it is true and then asks you to buy her new book. Don't you think that is rather tacky?

Gwen · Post by **Gwen** » 04-05-2002 05:20 PM

Oh well, Hilda Sophia, if it weren't for poor taste, some of us would have no taste at all

Here's the link to her perspective, for what it's worth: http://www.finalwarningthebook.com/perspective.shtml
She is always selling her books...er, rather, trying to sell her books. I bought "Final Warning" a few years ago...last time I will buy anything of hers.

Hilda Sophia · Post by **Hilda Sophia** » 04-06-2002 08:29 AM

Gwen,

I read Kathleen's article before I posted my message. Meant to say that. I would never buy any of her books.

I wonder how the book about Father Malachi will be received? I doubt if will picked up by the national media as there are few who are interested in him. It will probably be lost in the other Church problems.

[This message has been edited by Hilda Sophia (edited 06 April 2002).]

Conspiracy Theorist · Post by **Conspiracy Theorist** » 04-06-2002 12:12 PM

I'm rather skeptical about all of this. We should all be suspicious that the reporter in question waited over 30 years to go public with his story, and only after Father Martin was deceased.

The timing is rather suspect, as well, since it coincides with other Church sex scandals. Seems the reporter not only waited until Malachi was dead, but until he felt he could get the most money out of his story.

We can't prove or disprove his accusations, but I lean toward disbelief.

------------------
Rick Jackson

eliza_nightvoice · Post by **eliza_nightvoice** » 04-06-2002 06:48 PM

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist:
The timing is rather suspect, as well, since it coincides with other Church sex scandals.

Don't think there could be a connection other than coincidence. The book must have been in the works long before the scandals started breaking in Boston.

I'd agree with you all about the situation, but I keep coming back to why would a man in his 70's want to write something like this for publicity? I just don't know...

Ninerism · Post by **Ninerism** » 04-12-2002 01:02 AM

Al Bowman: There are not many people such as you who are willing to be so open-minded, even when personally challenged by allegations about Malachi Martin whom you have supported.

Your willingness to ferret-out the truth is all too rare these days! And it also shows your ability to not have your own personhood or personal identity put "on the line" just because a person/writer whom you very much like may have some personal skeletons in his own closet.

Ninerism

Mercury · Post by **Mercury** » 04-12-2002 10:24 PM

The book is reviewed in the NATIONAL CATHOLIC REPORTER:

"A wicked priest and a shattered marriage"

CLERICAL ERROR: A TRUE STORY
By Robert Blair Kaiser
Continuum, 304 pages, .95
REVIEWED By ARTHUR JONES

I've never met Time magazine’s onetime man in Rome, Robert Blair Kaiser. Maybe that’s a good thing. I’m left free to say what great entertainment his “true story” is. A genuine page-turner. But not for everyone. For some, this may be a tell-all book that tells too much. While it races along like a fast-paced thriller, it is an excruciatingly painful look at the breakup of Kaiser’s own marriage, genuinely dastardly deeds done in his own apartment by a “fellow” Jesuit, Fr. Malachi Martin. Irish Jesuit Martin not only leaped into Kaiser’s half of the marital bed in his absence, but slept in Kaiser’s nightshirt and by day wrote a fallacious Vatican II book on Kaiser’s Olivetti.

All this while Kaiser was off doing groundbreaking coverage of the Second Vatican Council (1962-65) for Time magazine.

Neither was Kaiser’s the only wife Martin seduced, nor the only family Martin broke up. Martin haunts this book.

There are private detectives. There are letters lifted from people’s pockets. There’s the venal, vicious, unsinkable Malachi Martin outwitting everyone -- Kaiser, his Jesuit superiors, his publishers, other men’s wives -- while working his wiles on visiting French girls. (Martin drags people down; according to this he even sank the renowned Jesuit Gus Weigel by deliberately planting false stories with him.) Quite honestly, this book would be unbelievable were Kaiser not telling it with such frankness. It rings accurate because it oozes such pain.

Did we need to know all this? For its insights into a wicked Martin, yes. Martin becomes the example in a complicit church of the self-perpetuating, sexually screwed up institution that so needs reforming. On those grounds alone I think we need to know.

more...

Post by **Linnea** » 04-12-2002 11:28 PM

My two cents -

I am inclined to take all this current 'scandal' regarding Father Malachi Martin with a very skeptical attitude. In fact, if I may suggest - though not in as bold strokes as Maryals - this complete attack upon the man suggests some sort of vendetta - or plan - to smear Father Martin.

My only involvement in this topic is the experience of listening to Father Martin in his interviews with Art Bell. I am neither a catholic, nor a great 'religious person' - so am at least not suspect as having a 'defensive stance'. I found Father Martin to be sincere and credible - as much as I was able to discern in his radio interviews.

The timing of this 'scandal' - the current Pope in very failing health - and that other 'scandals' have beset the Church -seems to bolster Father Malachi's own warnings of the changes to come in the Church of Rome/The Vatican.

It would seem that his dire warnings are now beginning to bear fruit.

I wonder if Art Bell may do a show on this topic - 'Vatican Intrigue'. I wish he would investigate some of these issues with knowledgeable guests.

As Father Martin is no longer around to defend himself - it would be an opportune time for his supporters to mount a rebuttal.

Post by **Linnea** » 04-12-2002 11:39 PM

I just emailed a copy of this forum page to Art Bell with a suggestion he look into this and see if he could schedule credible guests to comment and possibly mount a defense of Father Martin.

Perhaps anyone interested in this topic could do the same - contact Art Bell. On the other hand, he may feel he does not want to help fuel this scandal. Hmmmmm.

Ninerism · Post by **Ninerism** » 04-13-2002 01:04 AM

A mis-read on my part, late last nite!

Ninerism

[This message has been edited by Ninerism (edited 13 April 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Ninerism (edited 13 April 2002).]

Ninerism · Post by **Ninerism** » 04-13-2002 01:12 AM

Linnea: Very interesting ideas you pose for us to consider. I do want to learn more, too.

You know, I personally found objectionable when Martin stated that he could walk the streets of New York and constantly see "perfectly possessed people", and well, wondered if he watched too much Seinfeld or what? Ok, seriously, I just wondered what such a provocative statement really means to the average listener, as that was a very provocative statement to have made.

My problem was, what if Martin had walked the streets of, say, New Delhi, or Osaka, Japan, and realized that all of those people around him may not even be Christians! Was he even safe? I mean, all the potentials for "perfectly possessed people" could be terrifying in such over-whelming numbers, too. I donot think that people need to be Christian to be good people, however, some of Martin's statements led me to wonder what he was driving at, at times. I would assume that Japan and India both have millions of wonderful conscientious and good-hearted people of good character, too.... but I still have my biases to be HERE instead!!!

I am not in opposition to the man. Just need to declare the things I also heard, too.

Does this make any sense?

Ninerism