I have just deleted the post that I just posted, a post in which I take my final leave of THE FANTASTIC FORUM. Why did I do this? Because there ARE some people here --- not many, but some --- who have been very nice to me and whom I do care about. I stay here for their sake.
As the conquered Indian said, "I will fight no more forever." If my perspective be true, then I don't have to defend it; and if it be false, then I can't defend it. Truth is the daughter of time.
I will stay here, in the background, for my friends, people who have been most kind to me. I stay here, in the background, only for them.
Go ahead, the rest of you, laugh at me! I no longer care...
A shout out' Joe Quinn
Moderator: Super Moderators
Bobbi Snow wrote: The outside interests deliberately went after the Black Churches and their members to rally support for Prop.8, because they know the most disenfranchised people of American society have had no choice but to rely upon Faith in God to survive the many injustices hurled and levied against them collectively, for as long as white people have colonized North America, since bringing their ancestors to this land against their wills, for the sole purpose of enslavement. All these vermin had to do was get the ministers to preach God-Willed discrimination in the Name of the Lord, and the congregations became easy pickin's...
That's a pretty inventive explanation. How come the same "vermin" didn't employ similar methods to trick blacks into voting for McCain?
-
Jon-Marcus
- Pirate
- Posts: 1409
- Joined: 01-08-2005 09:10 AM
- Location: Bonham, Texas
racehorse wrote: rumike, I am one of the "overt Fascists" (the principle one) in joequinn's opinion (as he has indicated many times) and like you I came here (in January 2003) because I wanted to talk with interesting people who share similar interests and not because of any agenda. Over the years many of the Pirates have become my friends and I cherish each and every one of them.
I can honestly say I have never been in collusion with any of the moderators or anyone else here to spread any political doctrine. SETIsLady, Linnea, and Shirleypal do a great job keeping this ship sailing the high seas and deserve appreciation not scorn from the entire crew of this vessel.
And according to great Joequinn I'm also one of the "overt Fascists" .
Go figure.
Lady Linnea,
I made no response because, having read Joe's newest hate fest, I have been far too ticked off to post. I felt I should cool off first, least I say something really crude. And I would have. Also because this is the Brig and not the P&G.
That being said; You three Ladies do not deserve to be subjected to Joe's latest rantings. However, were I asked for an opinion it would be; I'd be happy to volunteer to extend the plank.
"You have forgotten the face of your father." Roland Deschain
Hello Joe,
I've been looking forward to seeing you return to this community of wonderfully interesting people and the diverse set of views that are shared here. Your writing has proven to be of particular interest to me over time, and I always look forward to hearing what you have to say about the issues facing America, and the world.
It wasn't always that way. I recall that shortly after boarding this ship we ran head on in to each other. I saw in you an arrogant man, an angry man. One whose anger had completely closed his mind to the consideration of other points of view. To say that I didn't like you would have been an understatement. Over time, that view softened, and later changed altogether. A mutual friend recommended that I take my time reading what you had to say, and slowly my eyes opened to the words put forth by a........ perhaps brilliant mind. Within your posts, hidden between the lines of extreme anger, extreme declarations, and on occasion, extreme accusations directed towards your fellow Pirates were profound words of both wisdom, and experience.
I think it would be a shame for you to leave us - but that choice is your own ultimately. No one will make it for you, and in my opinion your posts here tonight seem to betray a desire for someone, or perhaps several people to make that choice for you.
Perhaps you sought to validate your very low opinions of the majority of Pirates here, or your hypothesis regarding the moderators of this ship. Perhaps you simply wished to force a confrontation that would lead to your desired results to be banned - and thus to become a martyr in your own mind. Regardless of your reasons, it is both surprising and disappointing.
Sir, you have labeled me a traitor to my country given my vote for John McCain in this election - despite having no true knowledge of my world view, or reasons for casting my vote as I did.
That said, I feel that I must point out to you that by your own logic, you to are a traitor to your country having cast your ballot for Barack Obama - yes, a traitor. Based upon your writing, you have portrayed Barack Obama as a politician who is in effect, no different than those others who have worked to destroy the idea of America - and you Sir, you voted for him while stating the end result would ultimately be the same......... all while acknowledging the alternate possibilities available to you while you stood in that voting booth. As you put it, "he sold his soul........ to the powers of darkness". You further went on to recount how you would never forget the "chilling look in Obama’s face last night in Grant Park......... when he told his supporters that they were not going to be pleased with everything that he did." You spoke out about how the Gay Rights movement would be the "first casualties of his electoral victory".
And yet you voted for him......... you voted for a man you believe may be "fascist-lite swine".
By your own logic, you Sir are a traitor to America. You have become an Amerikan - welcome to the club Joe Quinn.
Harsh words? Yes, I acknowledge that they are - and I have a few more for you unfortunately. But I want you to know that these hard words are driven by a sincere respect for both your intellect, and your passion. I hope you will consider them in that spirit.
Joe, worse than being a traitor to your country, you need to take a hard look in the mirror, because today your words betrayed the fact that you are also a traitor to yourself, and your stated ideals.
By calling out the moderators in the manner you did, and by wishing to see a "revolt" against their decisions to allow people to post their opinions here freely, you exposed your desire to silence voices of dissent, views that did not mesh with your own. Is that what your America stands for? Are these the ideals of the world you wish to live in? I suggest that it is no different than the tactics you decry, and try to open our eyes to.
Moderation of the type you seek would have left this ship with a crew that would be better suited to manning a boat the size of a canoe, as opposed to a ship large enough to sail the seven seas of the internet and all of the fascinating topics discussed here.
You claim that when you criticized Barack Obama, it had sealed your fate and led to your forced expulsion from the Fantastic Forum. But you are wrong there, totally wrong - because later, within the same paragraph you acknowledged that you were prior to today unaware that you had been suspended for a month. In other words, no one forced you out - you left on your own prior to any such action being carried out. As you put it, you "vanished in a rage". Rather than confront head on the political operatives you claim were operating here, you decided to leave the forum. You claim to "have learned nothing, absolutely nothing, from my temporary expulsion." Well, that is a given considering you were unaware of having been expelled. It only makes sense that your "views are the exactly the same that they were three months ago."
I will agree with you that it was a distinctly unpleasant experience to criticize Barack Obama here, and it occasionally led to a certain amount of ugliness - but that is to be expected to a certain extent during an election cycle when people are discussing politics, no? It cannot be an easy job to moderate a discussion of politics amongst people with such passionate feelings - one has to walk a fine line in that regard to not completely shut down discussion. In my opinion, the moderators here did an excellent job of it and deserve our thanks - not derision.
You state that you "couldn’t care less" if you are banned from the Fantastic Forum - yet your words, and appearance here tonight betray you........ if you felt that way, you would not have returned here tonight at all. You certainly would not have gone on to further discuss and debate the awful setbacks the Gay community suffered yesterday across this country, and the reality that our new President is unlikely to do anything of substance to further our cause in that regard.
Personally, I think you do want to be here....... badly. I can tell you, I want you to be here. Your voice, like many of the others here is important to me. I am still pretty young, I've been aware of the realities of this world for a relatively short period of time. It is by reading the thoughts of people like yourself that people like me get a better understanding of how this world actually works.
So, I hope you will stay here a while longer, and I ask you to consider the very wise and insightful words posted by Setislady on page 5 of this thread - as with so many of your own posts, there is real wisdom there, and an insight we can all learn from.
Read that post Joe and think about it, not politically - but personally.
I've been looking forward to seeing you return to this community of wonderfully interesting people and the diverse set of views that are shared here. Your writing has proven to be of particular interest to me over time, and I always look forward to hearing what you have to say about the issues facing America, and the world.
It wasn't always that way. I recall that shortly after boarding this ship we ran head on in to each other. I saw in you an arrogant man, an angry man. One whose anger had completely closed his mind to the consideration of other points of view. To say that I didn't like you would have been an understatement. Over time, that view softened, and later changed altogether. A mutual friend recommended that I take my time reading what you had to say, and slowly my eyes opened to the words put forth by a........ perhaps brilliant mind. Within your posts, hidden between the lines of extreme anger, extreme declarations, and on occasion, extreme accusations directed towards your fellow Pirates were profound words of both wisdom, and experience.
I think it would be a shame for you to leave us - but that choice is your own ultimately. No one will make it for you, and in my opinion your posts here tonight seem to betray a desire for someone, or perhaps several people to make that choice for you.
joequinn wrote: I have said my piece, my carefully premeditated piece. The next move is collectively yours.
Perhaps you sought to validate your very low opinions of the majority of Pirates here, or your hypothesis regarding the moderators of this ship. Perhaps you simply wished to force a confrontation that would lead to your desired results to be banned - and thus to become a martyr in your own mind. Regardless of your reasons, it is both surprising and disappointing.
Sir, you have labeled me a traitor to my country given my vote for John McCain in this election - despite having no true knowledge of my world view, or reasons for casting my vote as I did.
That said, I feel that I must point out to you that by your own logic, you to are a traitor to your country having cast your ballot for Barack Obama - yes, a traitor. Based upon your writing, you have portrayed Barack Obama as a politician who is in effect, no different than those others who have worked to destroy the idea of America - and you Sir, you voted for him while stating the end result would ultimately be the same......... all while acknowledging the alternate possibilities available to you while you stood in that voting booth. As you put it, "he sold his soul........ to the powers of darkness". You further went on to recount how you would never forget the "chilling look in Obama’s face last night in Grant Park......... when he told his supporters that they were not going to be pleased with everything that he did." You spoke out about how the Gay Rights movement would be the "first casualties of his electoral victory".
And yet you voted for him......... you voted for a man you believe may be "fascist-lite swine".
By your own logic, you Sir are a traitor to America. You have become an Amerikan - welcome to the club Joe Quinn.
Harsh words? Yes, I acknowledge that they are - and I have a few more for you unfortunately. But I want you to know that these hard words are driven by a sincere respect for both your intellect, and your passion. I hope you will consider them in that spirit.
Joe, worse than being a traitor to your country, you need to take a hard look in the mirror, because today your words betrayed the fact that you are also a traitor to yourself, and your stated ideals.
By calling out the moderators in the manner you did, and by wishing to see a "revolt" against their decisions to allow people to post their opinions here freely, you exposed your desire to silence voices of dissent, views that did not mesh with your own. Is that what your America stands for? Are these the ideals of the world you wish to live in? I suggest that it is no different than the tactics you decry, and try to open our eyes to.
Moderation of the type you seek would have left this ship with a crew that would be better suited to manning a boat the size of a canoe, as opposed to a ship large enough to sail the seven seas of the internet and all of the fascinating topics discussed here.
You claim that when you criticized Barack Obama, it had sealed your fate and led to your forced expulsion from the Fantastic Forum. But you are wrong there, totally wrong - because later, within the same paragraph you acknowledged that you were prior to today unaware that you had been suspended for a month. In other words, no one forced you out - you left on your own prior to any such action being carried out. As you put it, you "vanished in a rage". Rather than confront head on the political operatives you claim were operating here, you decided to leave the forum. You claim to "have learned nothing, absolutely nothing, from my temporary expulsion." Well, that is a given considering you were unaware of having been expelled. It only makes sense that your "views are the exactly the same that they were three months ago."
I will agree with you that it was a distinctly unpleasant experience to criticize Barack Obama here, and it occasionally led to a certain amount of ugliness - but that is to be expected to a certain extent during an election cycle when people are discussing politics, no? It cannot be an easy job to moderate a discussion of politics amongst people with such passionate feelings - one has to walk a fine line in that regard to not completely shut down discussion. In my opinion, the moderators here did an excellent job of it and deserve our thanks - not derision.
You state that you "couldn’t care less" if you are banned from the Fantastic Forum - yet your words, and appearance here tonight betray you........ if you felt that way, you would not have returned here tonight at all. You certainly would not have gone on to further discuss and debate the awful setbacks the Gay community suffered yesterday across this country, and the reality that our new President is unlikely to do anything of substance to further our cause in that regard.
Personally, I think you do want to be here....... badly. I can tell you, I want you to be here. Your voice, like many of the others here is important to me. I am still pretty young, I've been aware of the realities of this world for a relatively short period of time. It is by reading the thoughts of people like yourself that people like me get a better understanding of how this world actually works.
So, I hope you will stay here a while longer, and I ask you to consider the very wise and insightful words posted by Setislady on page 5 of this thread - as with so many of your own posts, there is real wisdom there, and an insight we can all learn from.
Read that post Joe and think about it, not politically - but personally.
Last edited by Kaztronic on 11-06-2008 02:30 AM, edited 1 time in total.
"You'll get used to my babbling, all the others have." - Anna Madrigal from "Tales Of The City" by Armistead Maupin-
Shimmering Auro
- Pirate
- Posts: 1600
- Joined: 12-25-2005 05:59 AM
My only comments: as a proud American, I'm offended by Joe Quinn's posts with a K in the spelling of America, Americans. As a Pirate I'm take offense at the criciticms of the forum and forum leaders and participants.
A person's views of the world can and often are different for each of us. Respect for one another should be a constant.
I wish you well Joe. Goodbye (because if you don't go, I will simply ignore you anyway).
Edited to add: I for one will not hear someone label me as Fascist without saying flat out that he or she is wrong and has perhaps been listening to too much hate radio talk. I come from a family that indeed had true Fascist party members in Italy. I know I am not a Fascist and resent being labeled as such. I do believe in our country and favor social programs that help the poor and grow our nation, but, I am not for a dictatorship or oppression to achieve any goals. Liberal Americans are not Facists.
A person's views of the world can and often are different for each of us. Respect for one another should be a constant.
I wish you well Joe. Goodbye (because if you don't go, I will simply ignore you anyway).
Edited to add: I for one will not hear someone label me as Fascist without saying flat out that he or she is wrong and has perhaps been listening to too much hate radio talk. I come from a family that indeed had true Fascist party members in Italy. I know I am not a Fascist and resent being labeled as such. I do believe in our country and favor social programs that help the poor and grow our nation, but, I am not for a dictatorship or oppression to achieve any goals. Liberal Americans are not Facists.
[From Webster) Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: \ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date: 1921
1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality — J. W. Aldridge>
— fas·cist \-shist also -sist\ noun or adjective often capitalized
— fas·cis·tic \fa-ˈshis-tik also -ˈsis-\ adjective often capitalized
— fas·cis·ti·cal·ly \-ti-k(ə-)lç\ adverb often capitalized
Last edited by Chickadee on 11-06-2008 07:55 AM, edited 1 time in total.
"We can't solve problems with the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." – Albert Einstein
joequinn wrote: And here I stand. If you don’t like what I have said here, then lump it, because you will hear nothing else from me. And if, the next time I return to this thread, I discover that I have been barred, terminally barred, from The Fantastic Forum, then I couldn’t care less. Even if I am not barred, I will regard myself as being in enemy territory whenever I am here. And the responsibility for what that expulsion will make The Fantastic Forum will be yours, not mine. Surely, if you expel me again, your own long-term survival is highly doubtful. And who knows? Maybe it would be better if you disappear altogether.
I have said my piece, my carefully premeditated piece. The next move is collectively yours.
Frankly Scarlet, I don't give a f#ck.
If your ego would allow you to end your self loathing by chewing through a vein, your misery could be over.
If you could think carefully, you might realize that you (and your despicable negativity) are NOT essential here. You are NOT the center and you are NOT the star intellect that you imagine yourself to be.
Somewhere in the world there might be a willing audience to indulge you and your non-solutions.
Please do it away from me.
I reject your crap.... and I reject you.
A part of me is quite sorry that my recent posts have given offense: after all, I have been here at The Fantastic Forum for almost a decade now, and I have known many of you for quite a long time. I am --- or at least I once was --- a gentlemen, whom Cardinal Newman once defined as "a person who never causes pain." A part of me is quite sad that I am no longer a gentleman, that I am in a total existential situation where being a gentleman would be a mark of insanity.
A deeper part of me, however, realizes that that whole segment of my life is over now, once and for all. I could deal, albeit with great difficulty, with the overt fascism that has been allowed to pass unchecked on this forum for the past four years. But when the Obamabots began to appear here --- and mark my words, it will be disclosed someday that many of these Obamabots (not necessarily the ones here) were intelligence operatives in the service of the Brzezinski wing of the Cryptocracy --- that was that. I left the forum in a cold fury, and later learned that I had been banned from it for a month.
A part of me says that I should have let sleeping dogs lie, that I should have quietly vanished from this board, and that I should not have cultivated even more trouble for myself than I already have. That part still speaks to me. But another, and deeper, part says that the reason why the planet (forget about Amerika, just forget about that terminal mess at this point!), the reason why the planet is in such a hideous disaster-in-waiting was because too many people listened to that voice for too long. And after having been silent for so many decades, albeit out of necessity, I will not be silent any longer. I would rather be totally alone than be silent. Hell, I would rather be dead.
The bridges here are burning, and a part of me is quite sad to see them burn. But the cold, inescapable, fact of the matter is that I am not the person whom I was when I joined The Fantastic Forum in April of 2000 and that my collective reality has little in common with what it was in April of 2000. What was appropriate then for me is not appropriate now. The bridges are burning, alas, but they were old and rotton and ready to fall anyway. And that too is a sad thing to consider.
I guess that just about sums up how I feel and why I bothered to come back at all. A part, a big part, of me on the surface is sad at what has happened in the past 24 hours. But a deeper, now-realer, part of me knows that I needed to say what I said and that it was long overdue to be said. And there it stands with me...
A deeper part of me, however, realizes that that whole segment of my life is over now, once and for all. I could deal, albeit with great difficulty, with the overt fascism that has been allowed to pass unchecked on this forum for the past four years. But when the Obamabots began to appear here --- and mark my words, it will be disclosed someday that many of these Obamabots (not necessarily the ones here) were intelligence operatives in the service of the Brzezinski wing of the Cryptocracy --- that was that. I left the forum in a cold fury, and later learned that I had been banned from it for a month.
A part of me says that I should have let sleeping dogs lie, that I should have quietly vanished from this board, and that I should not have cultivated even more trouble for myself than I already have. That part still speaks to me. But another, and deeper, part says that the reason why the planet (forget about Amerika, just forget about that terminal mess at this point!), the reason why the planet is in such a hideous disaster-in-waiting was because too many people listened to that voice for too long. And after having been silent for so many decades, albeit out of necessity, I will not be silent any longer. I would rather be totally alone than be silent. Hell, I would rather be dead.
The bridges here are burning, and a part of me is quite sad to see them burn. But the cold, inescapable, fact of the matter is that I am not the person whom I was when I joined The Fantastic Forum in April of 2000 and that my collective reality has little in common with what it was in April of 2000. What was appropriate then for me is not appropriate now. The bridges are burning, alas, but they were old and rotton and ready to fall anyway. And that too is a sad thing to consider.
I guess that just about sums up how I feel and why I bothered to come back at all. A part, a big part, of me on the surface is sad at what has happened in the past 24 hours. But a deeper, now-realer, part of me knows that I needed to say what I said and that it was long overdue to be said. And there it stands with me...
Last edited by joequinn on 11-06-2008 11:22 AM, edited 1 time in total.
"Fuggedah about it, Jake --- it's Chinatown!"
Joe, it doesn’t have to be bad, or sad, unless one lets it be so—indeed, makes it so.
As you know, I’m a fan of Whitley Strieber and Dreamland; and Whitley has a great tendency to go off into Gloomy Gus mode and tell us that the planet is almost certainly already screwed and we can’t do anything about it. He’s been called out on it, too. But, being a Gemini, that isn’t always his song, and he, just about as often, lifts up the possibility of a better world and a better us.
We have the power to make ourselves and the world what we will have them be. We have the power to create the universe both individually and collectively, and we can run into problems either way (i.e., with messing up our individual reality or what we contribute to the common reality). (Watch the film What the Bleep Do We Know? except don’t pay much attention to that “Ramtha” babe.) Since we live in a collective reality, we each have a role to play in making that reality a joy or a pain. Let’s choose joy whenever we can.
About being called a “fascist”: personally, I don’t care much, because it’s just a word, and—although I know what the dictionary definition is—it’s as meaningless as being called a communist. Or a commie pinko liberal fag. But it really hurts a lot of people, good people, who know what the term means, and hurting people is another point for the Dark Side in creating our common reality. There’s probably a little fascist in all of us, that bit that really wants people to do things our way, and by God, when we are commissar, that is how it shall be. But we are complex creatures, we humanoids, and as Mojo Nixon once pointed out, “There’s a little Elvis in all of us,” as well. Except maybe for Dick Cheney.
So I recommend accentuating the positive and eliminating the negative, as the song goes, because it is sound and wise. When you can help show us the depth and beauty that can spring from the works of Annie Proulx and Evelyn Waugh, why even spend any energy in railing against the dark? The dark will always be there. But we can push it back with the light.
As you know, I’m a fan of Whitley Strieber and Dreamland; and Whitley has a great tendency to go off into Gloomy Gus mode and tell us that the planet is almost certainly already screwed and we can’t do anything about it. He’s been called out on it, too. But, being a Gemini, that isn’t always his song, and he, just about as often, lifts up the possibility of a better world and a better us.
We have the power to make ourselves and the world what we will have them be. We have the power to create the universe both individually and collectively, and we can run into problems either way (i.e., with messing up our individual reality or what we contribute to the common reality). (Watch the film What the Bleep Do We Know? except don’t pay much attention to that “Ramtha” babe.) Since we live in a collective reality, we each have a role to play in making that reality a joy or a pain. Let’s choose joy whenever we can.
About being called a “fascist”: personally, I don’t care much, because it’s just a word, and—although I know what the dictionary definition is—it’s as meaningless as being called a communist. Or a commie pinko liberal fag. But it really hurts a lot of people, good people, who know what the term means, and hurting people is another point for the Dark Side in creating our common reality. There’s probably a little fascist in all of us, that bit that really wants people to do things our way, and by God, when we are commissar, that is how it shall be. But we are complex creatures, we humanoids, and as Mojo Nixon once pointed out, “There’s a little Elvis in all of us,” as well. Except maybe for Dick Cheney.
So I recommend accentuating the positive and eliminating the negative, as the song goes, because it is sound and wise. When you can help show us the depth and beauty that can spring from the works of Annie Proulx and Evelyn Waugh, why even spend any energy in railing against the dark? The dark will always be there. But we can push it back with the light.
Anchors Aweigh
Corvid wrote: Frankly Scarlet, I don't give a f#ck.
If your ego would allow you to end your self loathing by chewing through a vein, your misery could be over.
If you could think carefully, you might realize that you (and your despicable negativity) are NOT essential here. You are NOT the center and you are NOT the star intellect that you imagine yourself to be.
Somewhere in the world there might be a willing audience to indulge you and your non-solutions.
Please do it away from me.
I reject your crap.... and I reject you.
That's just fine with me. This sort of post is precisely why when people told me "oh Joe is really a sweetheart" I had sincere doubts.
Nothing sweet or tolerant about you. Just pure hate.
"We can't solve problems with the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." – Albert Einstein
Swerdloc wrote: Joe, it doesn’t have to be bad, or sad, unless one lets it be so—indeed, makes it so.
As you know, I’m a fan of Whitley Strieber and Dreamland; and Whitley has a great tendency to go off into Gloomy Gus mode and tell us that the planet is almost certainly already screwed and we can’t do anything about it. He’s been called out on it, too. But, being a Gemini, that isn’t always his song, and he, just about as often, lifts up the possibility of a better world and a better us.
We have the power to make ourselves and the world what we will have them be. We have the power to create the universe both individually and collectively, and we can run into problems either way (i.e., with messing up our individual reality or what we contribute to the common reality). (Watch the film What the Bleep Do We Know? except don’t pay much attention to that “Ramtha” babe.) Since we live in a collective reality, we each have a role to play in making that reality a joy or a pain. Let’s choose joy whenever we can.
About being called a “fascist”: personally, I don’t care much, because it’s just a word, and—although I know what the dictionary definition is—it’s as meaningless as being called a communist. Or a commie pinko liberal fag. But it really hurts a lot of people, good people, who know what the term means, and hurting people is another point for the Dark Side in creating our common reality. There’s probably a little fascist in all of us, that bit that really wants people to do things our way, and by God, when we are commissar, that is how it shall be. But we are complex creatures, we humanoids, and as Mojo Nixon once pointed out, “There’s a little Elvis in all of us,” as well. Except maybe for Dick Cheney.
So I recommend accentuating the positive and eliminating the negative, as the song goes, because it is sound and wise. When you can help show us the depth and beauty that can spring from the works of Annie Proulx and Evelyn Waugh, why even spend any energy in railing against the dark? The dark will always be there. But we can push it back with the light.
Well, better late than never, I suppose... Joe Quinn. 