John Titor: not so fast?

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John Titor: not so fast?

Post by Live365 » 06-13-2009 04:01 PM

George interviewed Oliver Williams last night, and my first reaction was :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:. But like reaching for that bottle of fine whiskey even though you know the hangover you’ll have in the morning, I couldn’t help it. Surprisingly, I found it to be the most compelling interview since the early days, and even George only interrupted six or seven times with something inane. He are some bullet points, since I know most of ya’ll don’t listen anymore.

Going with the hoax theory, if “John Titor” was anything he was an amazing psychic. Williams suggested last night that it had to be a string of people, given the depth and breadth of knowledge. People who wanted this stuff to be out there, because they new what was coming. Operatives of the shadow government?

As far as the people involved, including Williams, Larry Haber who represents the family claiming to have a now ten year old son that is the young John, and the purported hoaxters themselves, no one ever got rich off of this. The “movie” never happened, the “Disney theme park” never happened, the “book” has been out of print for two years. The family – who have supposedly been in Omaha since 2004 to prepare for what’s coming — actually shuns publicity. So what was the motive?

The physics John spoke about is becoming more and more credible. The notion of “mulitverses”, for example. Kaku is said to have recently acknowledged that mini-black holes – the power source for the time machine – could be possible with a supercollider. Hawking gave a speech as recently as March of this year that if time travel was possible, it be impossible to get back to your own time as you knew it. But John said that first, ten years ago.

CERN, the keeper of the supercollider, sent out a gag memo for April Fools Day of this year saying they were going to make mini black holes for a time machine. So, the people at CERN take this at least seriously enough to joke about it. As do the people at IBM.

There have been a number of confirmations from IBM – in one form or another – that the IBM 5100 is obsolete, and if you needed it, you would have to go back to the 70’s to get it. As far as being sophisticated enough to time travel yet still need computer parts from 60 years ago, Williams pointed out that NASA is constantly on E-Bay looking for old parts to keep the shuttle running.

As far as the great “No Olympics after 2004” debacle, it can still be attributed to the multiverse theory, or the “multiple world lines” as John put it. Williams, a smart guy in his own right, likened it to being in a barber shop with many mirrors. All the reflections in all the mirrors are doing exactly the same thing, but each reflection is in a different mirror. Each mirror is it’s own reality. It isn’t such a stretch that the last Olympics in John’s mirror were in 2004. And as 2008 proved, who cares about the Olympics anyway. Whether or not they happened really didn’t impact anything. And they were almost boycotted by many countries, you’ll recall.

And for the all-or-none folks who believe that if one part of the story falls then the rest of it must – of which I used to be one – consider some of the more important things John talked about:

The mysterious fax sent to Art Bell in 1998 that spoke about a missing sky scraper in New York. The author pointed to that as being the time that our “world line” began. Does the phrase “the world changed after September 11th” ring familiar?

There would be an erosion of civil rights due to war and world wide economic collapse. Ding.

China would put men in space. Ding.

Stephen Hawking would change his stance on time travel. Ding.

The supercollider at CERN would come on line and be a tremendous source of power. Ding now, but not when John first said it ten years ago.

“Virus cells” would be used in the treatment of cancer. One of my personal favorites, as I used to do this kind of work. In the year 2009, there are major international studies investigating using immune cells transformed by viral vectors as therapeutic cancer vaccines. The vaccine does indeed consist of both viruses and cells. In fact, virus-cells is a cute nick for them. But in 2001, I will assert, there were maybe twelve people in the world that had even heard of this. Ding.

Western support of Israel will waver. Other countries will get their own nukes. There will be problems with the space shuttle program. No WMD will be found in Iraq (he said this in early 2001, remember). Mad cow will be a serious problem. Due to disease, the loss of civil rights and economic collapse, there will be an increasing turn toward self-reliance and local government. Ding-ding-ding-ding-ding.

Of course, there was supposed to be a guns-in-the-street civil war by now, but John also said that 2008 -2009 would be the time frame where so many things changed so fast that we would finally realize the world we used to live in doesn’t exist anymore. Very, very close to being a ding.

John didn’t like us. He blamed us, the “sheep” who were self-aware in the first decade of the 21st Century but too stupid to understand what was happening to us, for what happened to him and his world. So why come here in the name of trying to help? Speculation continues that John screwed something up in 1975 while getting the computer parts that prevented Y2K from happening – he said it did happen in his world line, which would be an incredibly odd thing for a hoaxter to say if he wanted to be credible – and, like stopping Pearl Harbor and preventing America from entering WWII, he knew this was a really, really bad thing. So he hit 2000 – 2001, the period when things were just starting to change but prevention was still possible, to try and fix it. Which explains his growing bitterness when he realized no one was taking him seriously, and why he appeared to have abruptly left out of frustration in March of 2001. Just in time. Pun unintended.

http://www.johntitor.com
http://www.coasttocoastam.com if you want to listen to last night’s show via Streamlink.

Is it too soon to dismiss the John Titor story as a hoax? You decide.
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Post by Swerdloc » 06-13-2009 05:04 PM

Thanks for this, Live--I'm taking a listen.
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Post by Live365 » 06-13-2009 05:42 PM

Bill, this is a "free-weekend", apparently. Please do!
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Post by racehorse » 06-13-2009 07:53 PM

Two factors need to also be carefully weighed into consideration concerning the veracity of the John Titor allegations.

1. That what Titor said is absolutely true but he is from an alternate reality and there were, are, and will be subtle changes from what he knew to be accurate and our reality on this timeline of existence.

2. That everything John Titor said is completely true, as he believed it to be but he was wrong on his facts. He was not an Historian and could simply have some of his facts wrong while others were correct. Should some of our citizens somehow be transported back into time to a previous era, their version of contemporary events yet to occur would be seriously flawed, as they would be incorrect on much of their facts because they simply did not know History very well. If they tried to make warnings based upon what they "knew", unquestionably much of what they said would be very wrong.
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Post by Shirleypal » 06-13-2009 07:57 PM

or 3. He is full of it.

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Post by racehorse » 06-13-2009 07:59 PM

Shirleypal wrote: or 3. He is full of it.


That too. ;)
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Post by eagle » 06-13-2009 09:52 PM

I totally agree on #3.

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Post by Live365 » 06-13-2009 10:10 PM

Well, I was hoping for responses that consisted of more than "totally agree on #3 he's is full of it", but who am I to be pissy. Thanks fer at least reading.

Thanks, Race! Food fer thought........
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Post by racehorse » 06-13-2009 10:23 PM

A fourth possibility is that John Titor was truthful in what he said, from this reality rather than an alternate one, had his facts correct but that he changed the course of events, perhaps inadvertently by making his warnings.

All of these possibilities are supported by contemporary theories.

It is very likely that any genuine time traveler will be met with great skepticism by those in the public at large. Those of us on this ship are more knowledgeable about topics and theories like these and hopefully more open minded to considering possibilities that some of us at least believe are possible and indeed eventually probable.

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Post by Saharaka » 06-15-2009 06:36 PM

For the last three days every time I turn around before me is the name John Titor. Which got me to thinking. A few years ago I posted a photo on C2C of an electronic phone directory from about 15 years ago that had a message from my deceased grandmother. I did'nt think it would garner much interest but strangely I heard from people all over the world. One email I received was from John Titor with a very unusual and garbled message. Never could figure it out and although I emailed him back and asked for an explanation I didnt hear back from him. I posted the photo sometime between 2003 and 2005. Was'nt John Titor already missing by then?
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Post by racehorse » 06-15-2009 06:41 PM

Saharaka wrote: Was'nt John Titor already missing by then?


Very interesting, Saharaka.

Yes, John Titor's last message was in March, 2001.
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Post by stevesh » 06-16-2009 05:34 AM

Just a couple of things -

The whole multiverse excuse for the future 'facts' Titor got wrong seems a little too convenient. The 'dings' mentioned strike me as the same sort of thing you see when psychics are totalling up their accuracy - count the hits and ignore or try to excuse away the (much more numerous) misses.

The whole thing could very well have been a money-making hoax when it was conceived, but it just didn't work. Real businesses fail all the time.

The kicker for me is the 'reason' Titor supposedly came back. Everything I've read about the IBM 5100 says there's nothing unique about it, and even if there were something about it that was actually necessary for a 2036 time machine, those parts could certainly be made 60 years after the 5100 was built. The NASA explanation doesn't work. NASA could easily contract for parts to be made to keep the shuttle working, but at much greater expense than buying them via eBay or other sources.

So, my vote is for hoax, but I have to say it's been an amazingly long-lived story, and sort of fun to follow.

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Post by joequinn » 06-16-2009 07:52 AM

I assumed, from the moment that I first heard the story of John Titor, that the thing was nothing more than a s**t-stirring fraud. I was always far more interested in the way in which The Fantastic Forum played the tired story up, well past the time when wiser heads realized that it had lost credibility.

The way in which The Fantastic Forum collectively obsesses about such things as the John Titor hoax goes a hell of a long way to explain why The Fantastic Forum is in --- and will continue to be in --- the rut in which it finds itself. There are so many other stories which could be covered to better effect, but either they are not covered at all or, when somebody like Shirleypal posts them, they hit the ground like a dead fish.

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Post by Live365 » 06-16-2009 12:01 PM

Stevesh, these are very good arguments!
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Post by Saharaka » 06-16-2009 06:14 PM

I go with the notion that this has been a very colorful, well constructed hoax. Amusing and interesting at times but my confidence level has always been near zilch. I always saw John Titor as an entertainer. A legendary radio phantom. Kind of in the same realm as Hoagland or Dames or Mel. One of the characters of the night. If he suddenly appeared tomorrow and was interviewed I would listen. :)
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