There hasn't seemed to be a thread on this, so I'll make one... Did Art seem to act rather....naive about the uses the Imperials will no doubt put the coming technologies to? "Yes, we absolutely will have to keep an eye on it..." HOW?! They are making what is rationally illegal irrationally legal, right now!
Or was his stance only a cover at best, them getting to him at worst.
Tolces show, 10/1/06
Moderator: Super Moderators
Tolces show, 10/1/06
"Be intolerant: because some things are just plain stupid."
I was wondering if someone would bring this up.
Art said for years he was a Libertarian, and I never saw a reason to doubt him. Many of us no doubt remember when he had Harry Browne on the show. That sure wasn't a Libertarian speaking last night by any stretch of the imagination. Patrick Henry spoke for Libertarians when he said, "Give me liberty, or give me death."
Art also said he voted for Kerry in the last election, and that wasn't a Democrat talking either. Democrats could also lay claim to Henry's words.
He's changed a lot in the last couple of years. Whether that's out of a sense of self-preservation, strict orders from Clear Channel, or from the heart, is anybody's guess.
I liked the old Art a lot better, as I think many here did.
You'd also think he'd know what a Corvette Stingray was, wouldn't you?
Maybe he's been hit on the head. :p
Art said for years he was a Libertarian, and I never saw a reason to doubt him. Many of us no doubt remember when he had Harry Browne on the show. That sure wasn't a Libertarian speaking last night by any stretch of the imagination. Patrick Henry spoke for Libertarians when he said, "Give me liberty, or give me death."
Art also said he voted for Kerry in the last election, and that wasn't a Democrat talking either. Democrats could also lay claim to Henry's words.
He's changed a lot in the last couple of years. Whether that's out of a sense of self-preservation, strict orders from Clear Channel, or from the heart, is anybody's guess.
I liked the old Art a lot better, as I think many here did.
You'd also think he'd know what a Corvette Stingray was, wouldn't you?
Maybe he's been hit on the head. :p
We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. B. Franklin
Hello Hello--
I agree 100%. The way Art reacts to certain topics seems to indicate that SOMETHING has changed his way of thinking.
The thing about the Corvette Stingray really got me, too. How could he NOT remember that???
I would have thought Art and someone like Alex Jones would be a great combo for a show but now it seems Art just dismisses the whole "government cover-up" thing altogether.
Maybe he just needs to move back to his home in the desert......
Brian.
I agree 100%. The way Art reacts to certain topics seems to indicate that SOMETHING has changed his way of thinking.
The thing about the Corvette Stingray really got me, too. How could he NOT remember that???
I would have thought Art and someone like Alex Jones would be a great combo for a show but now it seems Art just dismisses the whole "government cover-up" thing altogether.
Maybe he just needs to move back to his home in the desert......
Brian.
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Dixie Butcher
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Iris wrote: That sure wasn't a Libertarian speaking last night by any stretch of the imagination.
You'd also think he'd know what a Corvette Stingray was, wouldn't you?
Maybe he's been hit on the head. :p
Yup, yup and yup, Iris! (sorry for all the snipping).
Very odd. I will always love Art and respect his opinions no matter what, but he was kinda scarin' me...
Wasn't it only a couple years back - I mean post 9/11 - when he was on about some kind of broadband computer deal that would enable the gov't or anybody else to spy on you? Did I imagine that, or just misunderstand/misremember? (and he was against it, btw, in my recollection.)
A bonk on the head might explain some stuff. Ocham's razor.
..... say, didn't he say he got shocked pretty good a few times on that big tower of his?Maybe Art is just returning to his political roots. He was a Republican before he became a Libertarian. When I was still listening to his show, he made many statements re Bush, Iraq, 9/11 etc. that indicate this. His radio show before C2C was a right wing talk show. It was standard right wing fare, and Rush is in his circle of friends (remember him talking about Rush, giving Rush the giant alien he now keeps in his office?).Iris wrote: I was wondering if someone would bring this up.
S
TTTM
Last night show was certainly something else. I was at the ORR most of the night, the words I used during it (especially concerning Art) was baffling, odd, shocking and uncomfortable. I only feel like this because I have so much respect for what Art represented in the past that it's so displeasing to see him take a stand (or lack there of) in issues like this. It's kind of like a band you love, who gives thought provoking & meaningful music putting out a generic pop album that makes you scratch your head "why". That's how I feel about Art on this, why is he taking the "generic pop" stance on it and acting like (and I can't believe I'm saying this) even less enlightened than your mainstream media on this issue?
There is so much I want to say about last night show, I don't even know how to start but here it goes. You could really feel the tension between Tolces and Art, I think Tolces was baffled by how nonchalant Art was. Every point Tolces brought up Art acted like "so what" "we can't do anything about it" and "whatever" . Art at times seemed like those unimaginative mainstream news commentators that wouldn't talk to the guests that Art would have on his show in the past or if they do, talk down to them & not take their words serious at all because they talk outside the box thoughts and beliefs. Art made his living in tackling issues with an open intelligent mind, not dismissing or diminishing stuff especially when a guest brings up an impressive case.
I was very interested in when the calls came in. I would guess most C2C listeners will lean more what Tolces was saying than Art's point of view, which is very uncommon in the past on most issues. My suspicions turned out to be correct as most callers were in disbelief on Art's stance on it. I liked the caller who said that how can Art talk about government cover ups and conspiracies over the years & they should not be trusted with UFO facts and the such but then be all willing to give them all your personal information? It was actually kind of sad that one of I think only two supporters of Art in this issue was a wacko yelling Bush supporter who was just screaming how Tolces was "Anti-Bush" and not even listening to the actual real facts and information that was being said. It's like wow, this is the group (even if it's indirectly) that Art is siding with? (ps, not saying all Bush supporters are wacko, but if you heard the woman and you know the type the kind who thinks any criticism or facts brought out against the current government is anti-American/Bush and have no truth, no matter how much evidence there is.)
I could understand his position on 9/11, I disagree with it but I can understand it (he's a patriot and has a hard time believing his government can be part of something so drastic) but this one I just can't get past. How can a guy like Art fall in line with the fear police and give up our most basic rights of privacy! And saying that they could be trusted with it? How so? Governments lie and use stuff for their advantage all the time. I never heard Art sound so naive in my entire time listening to him. He said he is sure there will be safe guards on this new gathering of information which Tolces I think smartly brought up that it's exactly what this new government policy is trying to do is removing those safe guards for the benefits of their wide spread spying. It's so surprising that Art wasn't really thinking of the consequences of this down the line.
If you truly are a patriot like Art I believe is, then you should fight & support for what made your country great and not willing to give it up. I'm hoping that maybe that guy pretending to be Art in that letter Art's been talking about is now also pretending to be Art on the radio because it's hard to believe this is the real Art Bell talking.
There is so much I want to say about last night show, I don't even know how to start but here it goes. You could really feel the tension between Tolces and Art, I think Tolces was baffled by how nonchalant Art was. Every point Tolces brought up Art acted like "so what" "we can't do anything about it" and "whatever" . Art at times seemed like those unimaginative mainstream news commentators that wouldn't talk to the guests that Art would have on his show in the past or if they do, talk down to them & not take their words serious at all because they talk outside the box thoughts and beliefs. Art made his living in tackling issues with an open intelligent mind, not dismissing or diminishing stuff especially when a guest brings up an impressive case.
I was very interested in when the calls came in. I would guess most C2C listeners will lean more what Tolces was saying than Art's point of view, which is very uncommon in the past on most issues. My suspicions turned out to be correct as most callers were in disbelief on Art's stance on it. I liked the caller who said that how can Art talk about government cover ups and conspiracies over the years & they should not be trusted with UFO facts and the such but then be all willing to give them all your personal information? It was actually kind of sad that one of I think only two supporters of Art in this issue was a wacko yelling Bush supporter who was just screaming how Tolces was "Anti-Bush" and not even listening to the actual real facts and information that was being said. It's like wow, this is the group (even if it's indirectly) that Art is siding with? (ps, not saying all Bush supporters are wacko, but if you heard the woman and you know the type the kind who thinks any criticism or facts brought out against the current government is anti-American/Bush and have no truth, no matter how much evidence there is.)
I could understand his position on 9/11, I disagree with it but I can understand it (he's a patriot and has a hard time believing his government can be part of something so drastic) but this one I just can't get past. How can a guy like Art fall in line with the fear police and give up our most basic rights of privacy! And saying that they could be trusted with it? How so? Governments lie and use stuff for their advantage all the time. I never heard Art sound so naive in my entire time listening to him. He said he is sure there will be safe guards on this new gathering of information which Tolces I think smartly brought up that it's exactly what this new government policy is trying to do is removing those safe guards for the benefits of their wide spread spying. It's so surprising that Art wasn't really thinking of the consequences of this down the line.
If you truly are a patriot like Art I believe is, then you should fight & support for what made your country great and not willing to give it up. I'm hoping that maybe that guy pretending to be Art in that letter Art's been talking about is now also pretending to be Art on the radio because it's hard to believe this is the real Art Bell talking.
Last edited by OMG on 10-02-2006 05:05 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Dixie, I think you're right about after 9-11. Shirley should chime in here, as she listens to old Art shows regularly and she has a fabulous memory for details. If there were a Trivial Pursuit game about Art, Shirley would win.
Sandy, very good points. Linnea reminded us that Art voted for Kerry last time I attempted to go there, about his friendship with Rush Limbaugh and all. The guest last night was interesting, but I had a real problem listening to Art's comments. There is a huge inconsistency between his stance on the government last night and his stance as little as a couple of years ago.
Yeah, OMG. I read your comments in ORR about it. It was kind of like turning on Art and getting elevator music instead.
Last night it was blatant, and it plays in with his "wingnuts" comments, an obvious slap across the face to many of his old loyal fans, and his making an exception in doing a mind blast for Limbaugh, but refusing to do one for world peace. I was struggling with how to bring this up when I saw Squall's post. Thanks, Squall.
Sandy, very good points. Linnea reminded us that Art voted for Kerry last time I attempted to go there, about his friendship with Rush Limbaugh and all. The guest last night was interesting, but I had a real problem listening to Art's comments. There is a huge inconsistency between his stance on the government last night and his stance as little as a couple of years ago.
Yeah, OMG. I read your comments in ORR about it. It was kind of like turning on Art and getting elevator music instead.
Last night it was blatant, and it plays in with his "wingnuts" comments, an obvious slap across the face to many of his old loyal fans, and his making an exception in doing a mind blast for Limbaugh, but refusing to do one for world peace. I was struggling with how to bring this up when I saw Squall's post. Thanks, Squall.
We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. B. Franklin
I was also very troubled to hear Art stating a position which is so naive. If Art has gone over the edge of reason like this - that might go a ways in explaining why the entrenched minority does as well.
He mentioned several times that the Islamic terrorists were about one thing - to kill us all. To eradicate us from the face of the earth. He has bought into this hook, line and sinker - apparently. He seems terrified of the prospect.
However, not even this makes sense - as he has moved out of the country into an area which is much less secure from terrorists. Or, is it? Maybe the heart of the Philippines financial district is under heavy, heavy protection by the globalists.
He seems sincere - which is even more weird.
Maybe it is just a quirk he has - along with some others in this country. A absolute inability to see reason on this matter. Even when Tolces plainly gave examples for how this surveillance and data mining stuff is not effective, and that our borders, ports, and other infrastructure were not protected by these means - Art just would not budge. That is really weird if safety is all that Art is concerned about.
His stance seemed illogical. Very illogical - for a person who is otherwise daring, or has been - or at least open minded.
Very mysterious, and not reassuring.
He mentioned several times that the Islamic terrorists were about one thing - to kill us all. To eradicate us from the face of the earth. He has bought into this hook, line and sinker - apparently. He seems terrified of the prospect.
However, not even this makes sense - as he has moved out of the country into an area which is much less secure from terrorists. Or, is it? Maybe the heart of the Philippines financial district is under heavy, heavy protection by the globalists.
He seems sincere - which is even more weird.
Maybe it is just a quirk he has - along with some others in this country. A absolute inability to see reason on this matter. Even when Tolces plainly gave examples for how this surveillance and data mining stuff is not effective, and that our borders, ports, and other infrastructure were not protected by these means - Art just would not budge. That is really weird if safety is all that Art is concerned about.
His stance seemed illogical. Very illogical - for a person who is otherwise daring, or has been - or at least open minded.
Very mysterious, and not reassuring.
Yah, Iris. Art did say he had voted for Kerry, and also specifically because Kerry was opposed to storing nuclear waste at Yucca Mtn.
Art seems quite concerned with being sucked into a black hole as well. He also seems to freak just a little when Michio Kaku so blithely tells him there are black holes wandering around in our own galaxy. He doesn't seem to recognize the real danger of the political black hole that is engulfing this nation.
Art seems quite concerned with being sucked into a black hole as well. He also seems to freak just a little when Michio Kaku so blithely tells him there are black holes wandering around in our own galaxy. He doesn't seem to recognize the real danger of the political black hole that is engulfing this nation.
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alphacentaura
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Thank you Linn, for welcoming me back.
As you all know, I don't do the immediate in the face "politic thing".
However that said, I personally was not only taken aback, but disgusted by Art's stance on many issues/facts/knowledge with his show with Tolces in last night's show.
I've been listening to Art for a very long time and his denial of open mind and even consideration for anything beyond the main steam just boggles my mind.
Apologies Shirley...I know you and others may not see it the way I do....however IMHO this has been a manifest for the last couple of years.
As others have said, just listen to the shows of gold of yesteryear...if the changes and stance are not blatantly obvious than I don't know what is.
I turned the show off after the second hour...I just couldn't stomach what I was hearing.
Atleast Tolces had the "balls" to question Art of some of what he was regurgitating.
Perhaps Art's statement of "nothing is as it seems" has a much broader meaning and implication.
I am very sad....beyond words......
Peace Pirates...JMHO.....
As you all know, I don't do the immediate in the face "politic thing".
However that said, I personally was not only taken aback, but disgusted by Art's stance on many issues/facts/knowledge with his show with Tolces in last night's show.
I've been listening to Art for a very long time and his denial of open mind and even consideration for anything beyond the main steam just boggles my mind.
Apologies Shirley...I know you and others may not see it the way I do....however IMHO this has been a manifest for the last couple of years.
As others have said, just listen to the shows of gold of yesteryear...if the changes and stance are not blatantly obvious than I don't know what is.
I turned the show off after the second hour...I just couldn't stomach what I was hearing.
Atleast Tolces had the "balls" to question Art of some of what he was regurgitating.
Perhaps Art's statement of "nothing is as it seems" has a much broader meaning and implication.
I am very sad....beyond words......
Peace Pirates...JMHO.....
Linnea wrote: I was also very troubled to hear Art stating a position which is so naive. If Art has gone over the edge of reason like this - that might go a ways in explaining why the entrenched minority does as well.
I was more than troubled. I was disappointed and saddened by his seeming naivety! Because of all his experience with things and people from all over the world, Art of all people should at the very least have seemed a little unsure about the situation!
It's too bad we won't be able to hear the show with him hosting when the shock of the truth and reality hits every US citizen. It will be 'show cancelled due to content not being approved by government radio censors'.
What upsets me the most however, is that with Art's position as a respected 'authority' on matters, how many people heard that show and jumped on his bandwagon without thinking.
Last edited by majda on 10-02-2006 05:34 PM, edited 1 time in total.
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government -- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry
alphacentaura actually my husband just finished listening to the show that you are referring too. He too has been listening to Art since day one. He stated that Art was extremely combative with Tolce. He commented that it almost seemed that the issue last night was personal, between Art & Tolce. Rene(hubby) suggested listening to the show that Noory had with him and see if Tolce said anything about Art. Hubby said he felt sorry for the guest and was extremely disappointed in Art. And that's unusual coming from my hubby, he is Art's number two fan.
Perhaps its because of the typhoon, perhaps its because of that stupid email that is flying around again. I know I won't listen to the show now.
actually my husband just finished listening to the show that you are referring too. He too has been listening to Art since day one. He stated that Art was extremely combative with Tolce. He commented that it almost seemed that the issue last night was personal, between Art & Tolce. Rene(hubby) suggested listening to the show that Noory had with him and see if Tolce said anything about Art. Hubby said he felt sorry for the guest and was extremely disappointed in Art. And that's unusual coming from my hubby, he is Art's number two fan. Perhaps its because of the typhoon, perhaps its because of that stupid email that is flying around again. I know I won't listen to the show now.
Glad you are here, Alpha. I agree, Tolces was really taking it to him. Another curiosity to me - was how easily Art seemed to tolerate that as well. As though Art were really being open minded, but he wasn't. The shock n'awe strategy seems to be working well in Art's case.
What I am trying to say - is Art did not even defend his position well. He only could return to his point that the terrorists were out to kill us all. He just repeated that mantra...against all logic.
Art never struck me as being the fearful type. That is what puzzles me the most.
Maybe it was the beheadings. Fearsome and grisly crimes - no doubt. Being shot or stabbed is something we are more familiar with.
Very curious altogether.
Disturbing.
What I am trying to say - is Art did not even defend his position well. He only could return to his point that the terrorists were out to kill us all. He just repeated that mantra...against all logic.
Art never struck me as being the fearful type. That is what puzzles me the most.
Maybe it was the beheadings. Fearsome and grisly crimes - no doubt. Being shot or stabbed is something we are more familiar with.
Very curious altogether.
Disturbing.
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Shirleypal
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