Pope Benedict Resigning

[Raggedyann]

I feel badly for the Catholic church in general as the Catholic religion is beautiful, I find the rituals beautiful and am sorry for all of the wonderful and good priests before and since who have to maneuver in this aftermath.

One can't feel bad enough for the poor children and I don't know that we will ever know really why those who could have did not come forward from the beginning.

Is it like any fraternal organization in that you recognize the egregious act and yet identify with your brother and that skews one's judgement?

I guess it does prove that doing the right right thing is always the more difficult than not.

Very well said Dio!

[Patty]

This is a very interesting interview. If you are interested in Petrus Romanus, or any of the info that Malachy Martin revealed in his books and to Art, listen to this. It was done on January 13th 2013. My McAfee tried to keep me out, I ignored it and it is fine. Here is the link http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/hagma ... io-archive

[kbot]

Not only was it hit but I just saw on the news that it was hit once. Then hit again 30 min later.

Yeah, I saw that on the TV last night......

[kbot]

Religions control their sheep with fear. This may not be how it is documented by them, but it is observable fact. My point is that the Catholic faithful must be shaking in their boots about now. I'll leave prophecy for prophetic and the faithful - and Nostradamus. Most all prophecy proves itself wrong in the end.

Science is not knowledge but is a means of verifying observations using reason, logic, theory and hypothesis. Any science that claims to know all isn't science at all, more like religion. My personal 'religion' demands that I question everything, which is taboo in mainstream religions and goes contrary to faith. My personal religion also holds liberty and freedom supreme and respects your and others right to believe what you will so I'm not trying to dissuade anyone of their faith. I truly sympathize with the position this has put the Catholic faithful in. I've also seen this or some other great change to the Vatican coming up Broadway for years now.

Actually, no, questioning is not contrary to Christianity (Catholicism and some other denominations). Probably the most famous examples come from St Paul, although St Anthony and the other Desert Fathers such as John Cassian of the Egyptian and Sinai monastic tradition strongly urged the faithful to question much, (even themselves/ yourself) since issues regarding the spiritual realm may eminate from the wrong source and motives may be questionable. The Philokalia is loaded with such examples and admonishments to question and search everything. Now, it may be that the concept of "faith" is being seem as acquiescing and being passive, and it may also be that this is the common perception that is out there. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth, doctrinally. In fact, Biblical sources and many other since have insisted that, especially in later times, increased scrutiny will be required. Some things are taken on faith - hence some prayers such as The Nicene Creed. Other tenets of believe are "taken as faith", but this should not be construed as ALL aspects of religious life as blindly accepted on faith. Also, recent history surely demonstrates that we are, after all, human, and humans make mistakes. We here in the Fall River Diocese and the Archdiocese of Boston probably know this better than most since the sex abuse scandals first becamke known here and we've dealt with it publicly far longer than other dioceses have. So, I think that skepticism is very much alive and well in the Church today and it needs to be, because, clearly, just by the very act of wearing the garb does not necessarily make one "holy".

[kbot]

I feel badly for the Catholic church in general as the Catholic religion is beautiful, I find the rituals beautiful and am sorry for all of the wonderful and good priests before and since who have to maneuver in this aftermath.

One can't feel bad enough for the poor children and I don't know that we will ever know really why those who could have did not come forward from the beginning.

Is it like any fraternal organization in that you recognize the egregious act and yet identify with your brother and that skews one's judgement?

I guess it does prove that doing the right right thing is always the more difficult than not.

Well, said. The Church will survive. It's troubles are only beginning (believe it or not). As one who still has pre-Vatican II memmories, I can recall the older rituals - although you can still experience these since every diocese is REQUIRED to have at least one parish that actively celebrates The Mass in the older Tridentine tradition. My wife and I were mulling the changes over last night over dinner and who things have changed so radically in a generation. Read the La Sallette prophesies and The Fatima prophesies and comapre them to Biblical end-time prophesies and the similarities are indeed frightening. That the La Sallette prophesies, written in 1846, have played out in the time since is mind-blowing.

My wife and I have the oportunity to go to Vatican City in 1993 and to visit inside St Peter's, and go to the Sistine Chapel. At the time, a lot of restoration work was ongoing, so the small group we were with pretty much had the place to ourselves. It was amazing. Hardly any crowds inside either building....

[kbot]

This is a very interesting interview. If you are interested in Petrus Romanus, or any of the info that Malachy Martin revealed in his books and to Art, listen to this. It was done on January 13th 2013. My McAfee tried to keep me out, I ignored it and it is fine. Here is the link http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/hagma ... io-archive

I've found Dr Malachi Martin to have been a very eye-opening experience..........Some of Art's best interviews.

[Fan]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/fe ... ay-victims

"Pope Benedict 'complicit in child sex abuse scandals', say victims' groups

Pope Benedict XVI 'knew more about clergy sex crimes than anyone else in church yet did little to protect children', say critics"

[Fan]

http://itccs.org/2013/02/13/pope-benedi ... by-easter/

Brussels:

The historically unprecedented resignation of Joseph Ratzinger as Pope this week was compelled by an upcoming action by a European government to issue an arrest warrant against Ratzinger and a public lien against Vatican property and assets by Easter.

The ITCCS Central Office in Brussels is compelled by Pope Benedict's sudden abdication to disclose the following details:

1. On Friday, February 1, 2013, on the basis of evidence supplied by our affiliated Common Law Court of Justice (itccs.org), our Office concluded an agreement with representatives of a European nation and its courts to secure an arrest warrant against Joseph Ratzinger, aka Pope Benedict, for crimes against humanity and ordering a criminal conspiracy.

2. This arrest warrant was to be delivered to the office of the "Holy See" in Rome on Friday, February 15, 2013. It allowed the nation in question to detain Ratzinger as a suspect in a crime if he entered its sovereign territory.

3. A diplomatic note was issued by the said nation's government to the Vatican's Secretary of State, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, on Monday, February 4, 2013, informing Bertone of the impending arrest warrant and inviting his office to comply. No reply to this note was received from Cardinal Bertone or his office; but six days later, Pope Benedict resigned.

4. The agreement between our Tribunal and the said nation included a second provision to issue a commercial lien through that nation's courts against the property and wealth of the Roman Catholic church commencing on Easter Sunday, March 31, 2013. This lien was to be accompanied by a public and global "Easter Reclamation Campaign" whereby Catholic church property was to be occupied and claimed by citizens as public assets forfeited under international law and the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.

5. It is the decision of our Tribunal and the said nation's government to proceed with the arrest of Joseph Ratzinger upon his vacating the office of the Roman Pontiff on a charge of crimes against humanity and criminal conspiracy.

6. It is our further decision to proceed as well with the indictment and arrest of Joseph Ratzinger's successor as Pope on the same charges; and to enforce the commercial lien and "Easter Reclamation Campaign" against the Roman Catholic church, as planned.

In closing, our Tribunal acknowledges that Pope Benedict's complicity in criminal activities of the Vatican Bank (IOR) was compelling his eventual dismissal by the highest officials of the Vatican. But according to our sources, Secretary of State Tarcisio Bertone forced Joseph Ratzinger's resignation immediately, and in direct response to the diplomatic note concerning the arrest warrant that was issued to him by the said nation's government on February 4, 2013.

We call upon all citizens and governments to assist our efforts to legally and directly disestablish the Vatican, Inc. and arrest its chief officers and clergy who are complicit in crimes against humanity and the ongoing criminal conspiracy to aid and protect child torture and trafficking.

From the ITCCS - a Canadian effort. I urge you to check out their site, a lot of very important information on the church's history. http://itccs.org

[Fan]

See also http://imaginativeworlds.com/forum/show ... f-Children for lots of information on Kevin Annett and his war to recognize church abuses among natives in Canada.

[Dale O Sea]

Actually, no, questioning is not contrary to Christianity...

My questioning has brought me answers that don't align with Vatican dogma or doctrine. I'm ecstatic that's agreeable to the Pope and his followers and they are allowing me to burn in hell...or I can do it their way and posthumously pass eternity in a land of unicorns and rainbows. I'm just not buyin' what they're sellin'..

Isn't questioning akin to what I've heard called a"Crisis of faith?" (rhetorically speaking - I'm Pope-ed out)

To each their own.. Pardon my skepticism - been a Missouri Show-me boy since birth, heh. I asked too many questions when I was 5 in Summer Vacation Bible School too - and haven't stopped since. . still no good answers, just the same ones. Please carry-on..don't mind me..Thick-headed, I am. When they were passing out spirituality, I was standing there with a thimble.

[kbot]

My questioning has brought me answers that don't align with Vatican dogma or doctrine. I'm ecstatic that's agreeable to the Pope and his followers and they are allowing me to burn in hell...or I can do it their way and posthumously pass eternity in a land of unicorns and rainbows. I'm just not buyin' what they're sellin'..

Isn't questioning akin to what I've heard called a"Crisis of faith?" (rhetorically speaking - I'm Pope-ed out)

To each their own.. Pardon my skepticism - been a Missouri Show-me boy since birth, heh. I asked too many questions when I was 5 in Summer Vacation Bible School too - and haven't stopped since. . still no good answers, just the same ones. Please carry-on..don't mind me..Thick-headed, I am. When they were passing out spirituality, I was standing there with a thimble.

I would suggest that people need to separate the worship of God from the man-made structure and rules attendant to that, as a starting point. The practice of religious worship is not necessrily synonymous with religious dogma, which everyone knows, does change over time. As a practicing Catholic I still struggle with the Church's wealth and their scandals. However, I certainly do not let that stand in the way of respectful worship. What I have found is that, in cases of, for example, Marian apparitions, that even certain Protestant denominations have accepted these events as having occured - which I found weird since the historical record of Protestants and Catholics, particularly in regards to Mary has been hostile at times

The Catholic Church has probably done more to adversely affect its own cause and the cause of proslytising religion than anyone else. I do not, and never have, attempted to ascribe characteristics of God or angels to Man. That would be foolish and counter-productive. But, by the same token, I wouldn't rush to take the message inherent in Christianity and throw it out simply because some people are crooks and perverts. As it is, Christ hung out with tax collectors, lepers and prostitutes and so forth. So, given that, who am I to judge and to state that such actions are unworthy..... I seem to recall a passage that states that we should not attempt to know the mind of God. If these events were foretold centuries ago, then they need to happen.

[megman]

Does he still get the silver hammer?

[Fan]

If these events were foretold centuries ago, then they need to happen.

Luckily these things were not foretold, so they don't need to happen.

The coverup is not part of god's ineffable plan, it is a criminal conspiracy.

[kbot]

http://itccs.org/2013/02/13/pope-benedi ... by-easter/



From the ITCCS - a Canadian effort. I urge you to check out their site, a lot of very important information on the church's history. http://itccs.org

If true, then this would certainly explain a lot. I do think though, that it is a bit of a strech to charge him with "ordering a criminal conspiracy". As we have been finding out, much had occured prior to the 1950s - hardly a time when Ratzinger was in a position to authorize and order a conspiracy.

Given the historical records of European countries and the Church, though, this doesn't surprise me. And, again, read what was said in the La Sallette apparition. This very same event sounds very similar to what was foretold. Also, I think that a simlar warrant was issued for the arrest of Archbishop Marcinkus over the Italian Bank scandal. I don't believe that he ever left the Vatican.

THAT being said, in a way, doesn't this present a "refreshing" precedent? Picture this....... Obama (or Bush, or any other president) has a bench warrant issued by a court in Brussels for their arrest the next time they step out fo the country, US assets seized overseas, accounts frozen, etc. Remember, the Pope is also a leader of a country (like it or not). So, this same tactic can (and most probably will) be used at some point in time against an American president for the actions of subordinates, and the inevitable cover-up. Two sayings spring immediately to mind: "Those in glass houses should throw stones", and, "Be careful what you wish for".

I know that a lot of people don't like Catholics, but this is one HECK of a precedent being set. I can picture a whole slew of cases being filed by Middle Eastern, African and Asian countries against the US.......

[kbot]

Luckily these things were not foretold, so they don't need to happen.

The coverup is not part of god's ineffable plan, it is a criminal conspiracy.

No, it may be that they were - we have to see how events unfold.

And, concerning endtime prophesy, events going back millenia have described certain events, which, btw, Evangelical Christians/ Protestants and non-Christians have reported on and spoke at length about. Hey, I'm not out to convert anybody, believe me. I have enough going on in my life......