I hope I am stating this eloquently and respectful as I do not mean to politicize this tragedy.
This takes me to my original thoughts (being simple minded as I am). Which do we choose - a new car or buying health insurance or whichever monetary responsible decisions we all face relative to our personal finances.
It seems to me we have reached the tipping point in this country relative to money in and money out on the state and federal levels.
I would like to know who voted to cut the funding for the school budget relative to security and how it works, etc. It seems this is much better handled at the state level to begin with but that aside is it more important that we have Obama phones and other feel good crap and in the meantime we have no money school security.
I remember in HS having a policeman (they called it Rent a Cop) on the premises daily and that was when this type of violence was truly just unheard of.
I know the obvious route here is more gun control and we had our unimpeachable AG tell us we need to think about our civil liberties (implying gun control but of course he took those very guns and put them in the hands of the Mexican drug cartel) so they would in turn shoot innocent folks - both Mexican and not.
http://www.washingtonguardian.com/washi ... ty-failure
Tragedy in Newtown
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Tragedy in Newtown
A man's character is his fate
Dio, There is no way you could "Politicize" this tragedy, like the "Powers that be" have done, the moment it happened!
That being said, I was under the impression that "New Security" had just been installed at that school for all the good it did, but the majority of schools in this country have some to none. I have no answer for your question. When a new car has more "security" on it than a school, it just mangles the mind.
That being said, I was under the impression that "New Security" had just been installed at that school for all the good it did, but the majority of schools in this country have some to none. I have no answer for your question. When a new car has more "security" on it than a school, it just mangles the mind.
Doka wrote: Dio, There is no way you could "Politicize" this tragedy, like the "Powers that be" have done, the moment it happened!
That being said, I was under the impression that "New Security" had just been installed at that school for all the good it did, but the majority of schools in this country have some to none. I have no answer for your question. When a new car has more "security" on it than a school, it just mangles the mind.
Doka,
I believe there were new security protocols for "visitor entry". This madman was denied entry but he forced his way in with his gun(s).
A policeman armed would at least have been able to diminish some of those babies being maulded down by this evil monster.
That really is my point - we have money for crap and no money for situations such as this so that in the type of environment we are in - we could have been proactive with an armed policeman.
It's almost too much for those of us to bear not knowing a soul in that school so can you imagine what it must feel like to live in that what once was idyllic town.
A man's character is his fate
HB3 wrote: The school was a "gun free zone."
The idea of having law enforcement on-site was discussed over the weekend on the morning talk shows, and was immediately nixed by a spokeswoman of the NEA. To me, it makes more sense to have security on site at schools, but, the fact of the matter is the NEA has a documented history of working towards gun control in this country.
My son went to a number of schools over the years. He started out in parochial school and when we moved he transfered to the town's public school system. Back in the 1990s, the parochial schools had locked doors, closed-circuit cameras and security. The public schools had the same, althiough the public schools also had members fo the town's police dept in the schools. This in a very small town...... The relationship between the kids and the police was great and when one of the meber of the police dept who worked at the school was killed in a head-on collision with a drunk driver the kids were devastated over the loss - the relationship was that close. Why the NEA is so against increased security and would rather advance a far-reaching challenge to the US Constituition is beyond me......
Kbot,
Sounds like they are missing the point - the NEA that is.
Logically speaking what could be so injurious as to have a armed policeman on the premises.
Personally I think the visual is powerful.
I am trying to grasp the simple mindedness of these folks who think they can fix a problem with a bumper sticker or a needlepoint pillow quotation "gun free zone". Gosh how can we say this is a gun free zone but we have a policeman on the premises who is armed - how can we ever make sense of that to the the children.
You know we had lots of rules in our house which only applied to our daughter while she was growing up because gues what - we were the parents/adults.
We are not only soft but daft.
Sounds like they are missing the point - the NEA that is.
Logically speaking what could be so injurious as to have a armed policeman on the premises.
Personally I think the visual is powerful.
I am trying to grasp the simple mindedness of these folks who think they can fix a problem with a bumper sticker or a needlepoint pillow quotation "gun free zone". Gosh how can we say this is a gun free zone but we have a policeman on the premises who is armed - how can we ever make sense of that to the the children.
You know we had lots of rules in our house which only applied to our daughter while she was growing up because gues what - we were the parents/adults.
We are not only soft but daft.
Last edited by Diogenes on 12-17-2012 11:22 AM, edited 1 time in total.
A man's character is his fate
The rationale I heard was that they didn't want to alter the atmosphere one would expct to find in a school.
I can appriate that, but it's time for some people to wake up and face reality. As much as we'd like to lock the door and pretend that the outside world doesn't exist is merely running away from reality.
Banks, retail businesses and healthcare organizations have been dealing with the reality that someday, some wackjob may want to come into your place of business and do damage. Each sector has had to deal with security issues in their own way, based on the peculiarities of their respective niche in society. Teachers somehow feel that they should be excluded from this, and that their response is to ban guns. That's fine except that criminals don't honor such laws.
While teachers may (and most assuerdly will during the debates that will erupt during the next few weeks) claim that they hold a "special place" in society, I would counter that argument and state that everyone in their own particular way holds a "special place" in society (although teachers may not think so) and that as an example, I would offer nurses, especially those who work for example at the various Children's Hospitals and other hospitals around the country with pediatric inpatient services. If we want to draw an apples-to-apples comparison between a professional who deals exclusively with children, you can't get much closer than that.
I'd also point to the security measures introduced at pediatric facilities that include alarms on the floors where children are admitted, electronic bracelets that set-off alarms if the child is moved off the floor, as well as the presence of closed-circuit cameras, restricted access corridors and armed guards in the facility.
I'm not proposing any of these measures, but just want to offer them as examples of systems that work. Are they 100% foolproof? Of course not. Nothing ever is. If someone truly wants to cause harm, they will. If guns are banned they'll find another means, such as drive a truck through a wall. What will the teachers want then? All trucks banned? Why not deal with the people who are the cause of the problem? From what I've been hearing on the news, frmo stories benig told by the kids who went to school with this guy, there were problems identifed (at least by the students) while he was a student. I people are going to be identified as "having issues", and then allowed to drop off the radar screen, who's fault is that? Where's the identification phase? How is it conducted? Who reports to who and how is follow-up conducted? Sounds like a huge ball was dropped here. But then again, this has been a recurring pattern -a tragedy occurs and people come out of the woodwork and state that they knew there were problems, they were identified and (surprise!!) no follow-up by those we have been told woujld provide that follow-up.
While I'll admit that there is a problem with violence in this country, banning guns is not the solution, and for teachers to examine this from the perspective of the microcosm of the classroom, and attemt to force legislation via petitions and other political measures which would affect the entire country, is, I believe, both short-sighted as well as an example of something which teachers criticize students for, namely, not researching a subject.
But then, when the subject of history is taken out of the curriculum, this is what you get.......
I can appriate that, but it's time for some people to wake up and face reality. As much as we'd like to lock the door and pretend that the outside world doesn't exist is merely running away from reality.
Banks, retail businesses and healthcare organizations have been dealing with the reality that someday, some wackjob may want to come into your place of business and do damage. Each sector has had to deal with security issues in their own way, based on the peculiarities of their respective niche in society. Teachers somehow feel that they should be excluded from this, and that their response is to ban guns. That's fine except that criminals don't honor such laws.
While teachers may (and most assuerdly will during the debates that will erupt during the next few weeks) claim that they hold a "special place" in society, I would counter that argument and state that everyone in their own particular way holds a "special place" in society (although teachers may not think so) and that as an example, I would offer nurses, especially those who work for example at the various Children's Hospitals and other hospitals around the country with pediatric inpatient services. If we want to draw an apples-to-apples comparison between a professional who deals exclusively with children, you can't get much closer than that.
I'd also point to the security measures introduced at pediatric facilities that include alarms on the floors where children are admitted, electronic bracelets that set-off alarms if the child is moved off the floor, as well as the presence of closed-circuit cameras, restricted access corridors and armed guards in the facility.
I'm not proposing any of these measures, but just want to offer them as examples of systems that work. Are they 100% foolproof? Of course not. Nothing ever is. If someone truly wants to cause harm, they will. If guns are banned they'll find another means, such as drive a truck through a wall. What will the teachers want then? All trucks banned? Why not deal with the people who are the cause of the problem? From what I've been hearing on the news, frmo stories benig told by the kids who went to school with this guy, there were problems identifed (at least by the students) while he was a student. I people are going to be identified as "having issues", and then allowed to drop off the radar screen, who's fault is that? Where's the identification phase? How is it conducted? Who reports to who and how is follow-up conducted? Sounds like a huge ball was dropped here. But then again, this has been a recurring pattern -a tragedy occurs and people come out of the woodwork and state that they knew there were problems, they were identified and (surprise!!) no follow-up by those we have been told woujld provide that follow-up.
While I'll admit that there is a problem with violence in this country, banning guns is not the solution, and for teachers to examine this from the perspective of the microcosm of the classroom, and attemt to force legislation via petitions and other political measures which would affect the entire country, is, I believe, both short-sighted as well as an example of something which teachers criticize students for, namely, not researching a subject.
But then, when the subject of history is taken out of the curriculum, this is what you get.......
Schools are not prisons. Cops don't belong in schools in my opinion. It would not have helped anyways necessarily.
What I will say is we have not heard the end of this story, or even the real version of events yet. It is all clouded in mystery and news media screwups. This is a strange one, made even stranger by all the coincidences surrounding it. The 3 shooters that are no longer mentioned, the insane fact that everyone said his mother had been killed in the classroom, but no, she was not even a teacher for ****s sake. The school had never heard of her, she was never working there. It really really pisses me off, this is done on purpose, how else could it happen to be so wrong and report it like it is fact.
What I will say is we have not heard the end of this story, or even the real version of events yet. It is all clouded in mystery and news media screwups. This is a strange one, made even stranger by all the coincidences surrounding it. The 3 shooters that are no longer mentioned, the insane fact that everyone said his mother had been killed in the classroom, but no, she was not even a teacher for ****s sake. The school had never heard of her, she was never working there. It really really pisses me off, this is done on purpose, how else could it happen to be so wrong and report it like it is fact.
I find it ominous that the argument centers around what kind of bristling defenses and armed patrols should be 'protecting' schools (and soon, other public places) & how much lethal capacity such patrols should have. To me it's like hospital staff arguing over which hack saw should be used to remove a gangrenous limb - over and over, patient after patient, day in, day out. After a while, wouldn't the real quest be to discover why there was so much poisonous bacteria in the environment causing gangrene?
In Los Angeles, 1950-something, my father took a high school class called 'cadets'. In that class every student was issued a .22 rifle, and proceeded to practice target shooting, and rifle maintenance. The class was taught for decades without incident. Even in the 1980's all the guys took welding, metalworking, etc. We built a really powerful 'potato gun' in a shop class, and knocked a door off of it's hinges with it. No problem, no malice. We all had anger issues, but we weren't murderous.
What is different now? That's the real debate, imho.
In Los Angeles, 1950-something, my father took a high school class called 'cadets'. In that class every student was issued a .22 rifle, and proceeded to practice target shooting, and rifle maintenance. The class was taught for decades without incident. Even in the 1980's all the guys took welding, metalworking, etc. We built a really powerful 'potato gun' in a shop class, and knocked a door off of it's hinges with it. No problem, no malice. We all had anger issues, but we weren't murderous.
What is different now? That's the real debate, imho.
Last edited by SquidInk on 12-18-2012 02:48 PM, edited 1 time in total.
For if it profit, none dare call it Treason.
First, don't ignore the role of SSRIs. This guy was on them too. If you want to go further than that consider how our culture has willingly given itself over to "evil" -- substitute some other term if you like. So you can go secular or quasi-religious/spiritual with this. But the point is, if you create a culture indistinguishable from an insane asylum, not everyone is going to be able to "shrug it off."
Last edited by HB3 on 12-18-2012 12:04 PM, edited 1 time in total.
No doubt.HB3 wrote: First, don't ignore the role of SSRIs. This guy was on them too. If you want to go further than that consider how our culture has willingly given itself over to "evil" -- substitute some other term if you like. So you can go secular or quasi-religious/spiritual with this. But the point is, if you create a culture indistinguishable from an insane asylum, not everyone is going to be able to "shrug it off."
Once we verify the linkage, then what?
For if it profit, none dare call it Treason.
Well, the American people just decisively voted in favor of delusion. Or there was a coup. Or some combination thereof. As you know, the commentary on this event has been marked by total incomprehension and misdirection, because the system that helped create such an event cannot -- of course -- hold a mirror up to itself. So it'll probably take the catastrophic collapse of the system for anything to begin to right itself. Looking at other examples in history of willfully delusional, decadent societies, that could take years, if not decades, to occur.