PT. 2 of Bush To America's Children: Drop Dead

Psychicwolf · Post by **Psychicwolf** » 08-22-2007 12:40 PM

All states do participate in the CHIPS program the disparity comes in administration and how well it is publicised to state residents. Here in WA a flyer goes home with every child at the beginning of the school year asking if the family has healthcare coverage and if not to contact the CHIP program. We also have TV commercials on an average of 20-30 times a day on a variety of channels.
In some states, however, I suspect that it is not as widely publicised.

Divinorumus · Post by **Divinorumus** » 08-22-2007 01:01 PM

Div, I know you own a small business, so did I until 1992. Do you pay for healthcare insurance for your employees?

Yes, heath, dental, life, 401K . . . . but contrarily to the way most think, it's not an entitlement. It's a way to make them pay their own way. In other words, if you think you are making $20 an hour, and the rest is free, then you are wrong. Actually, even though someone is thinking they earn $20 an hour (as an example) they are in fact earning $30 an hour. They just don't realize we take $10 of their compensation to pay for their healthcare before they have a chance to spend it on beer or iPods instead of healthcare for themselves and their kids. Those benefits ARE part of their hourly compensation. In fact, when anyone has an unexcused absence, they not only don't get that $20 an hour for not being there at work, we also prorate their benefits which are still being paid for during that day they are not earning it and deduct that from their pay. It is totally fair, and nobody should continue to get their so-called benefits paid for when they aren't but should be at work earning them benefits. It's amazing to listen to those who think just because they missed 3 days of work because they were in jail that we should continue to pay for their so-called entitlements at $10 an hour during the time they should have been at working earning that compensation. Just amazing, and yes, it happens..

Psychicwolf · Post by **Psychicwolf** » 08-22-2007 01:08 PM

No, it's not an entitlement but would you do away with those benefits and pay them then $30 an hour so they could pay for those emergency loans you want to finance healthcare with?
You don't give your employess PTO (paid time off?)

Divinorumus · Post by **Divinorumus** » 08-22-2007 01:20 PM

You don't give your employess PTO (paid time off?)

I don't recall how many holidays they they get off and paid for, but it is two more than most (floater days for when holidays fall on Wednesday or Thursday and they want an extended weekend). There is no such thing as a free day off no matter wherever you work. When someone is thinking they are getting free unearned money on Santa's birthday, they just don't realize their overall compensation is spread out to cover those days. All you have to do is total your yearly income and compensation and divide it by the number of actual hours worked to determine how much you earned. There is no such thing as free money.

No, it's not an entitlement but would you do away with those benefits and pay them then an hour so they could pay for those emergency loans you want to finance healthcare with?

Compensation is determined prior to hire. If that is what they demand, then that is what it will cost in order to hire them. Remember, compensation is established by the employee and their acceptance or refusal.

A business is no different than any other spending, personal or otherwise. They will try to find the best deal and won't offer more than necessary. Would you pay $7 for a $6 pack of smokes? Would you pay an auto mechanic to fix your car more than what they are asking for?

Psychicwolf · Post by **Psychicwolf** » 08-22-2007 01:54 PM

Divinorumus wrote: I don't recall how many holidays they they get off and paid for, but it is two more than most (floater days for when holidays fall on Wednesday or Thursday and they want an extended weekend). There is no such thing as a free day off no matter wherever you work. When someone is thinking they are getting free unearned money on Santa's birthday, they just don't realize their overall compensation is spread out to cover those days. All you have to do is total your yearly income and compensation and divide it by the number of actual hours worked to determine how much you earned. There is no such thing as free money.

Compensation is determined prior to hire. If that is what they demand, then that is what it will cost in order to hire them. Remember, compensation is established by the employee and their acceptance or refusal.

Absolutely!
My business was in some way simpler than yours and in someways more headache.

I ran a medical staffing agency. Some of my people worked fulltime (long term assignments, 20-40 hours a week). I paid benefits and PTO for those folks. Their wages aside from their benefits were the prevailing wage for RNs, RTs, LPNs, etc.
The majority of the others were refered to this hospital for 2 nights, and the next hospital for two days the following week. Sometimes they would call and say "don't book me next week". Those folks didn't receive benefits through my agency. Most of them had benefits from another source like a spouse and worked my jobs because they wanted the freedom to work or not, their choice. Their wage level was set by the site they worked plus 15/20% If Sunrise called for an RN and they were paying their RNs $24.95 an hour, Sunrise paid me $24.95 plus 15% for getting a replacement nurse in less than 3 hours. I paid the RN $24.95 and the 15% was what I made.

Divinorumus · Post by **Divinorumus** » 08-22-2007 02:13 PM

Most of them had benefits from another source like a spouse and worked my jobs because they wanted the freedom to work or not, their choice.

Sort of the same with myself. Although I'm a part owner, I'm not actually a full time employee, so I do not receive any of those same benefits. I am uninsured and pay all my own medical expenses myself. And, when I work there, I get paid the same hourly wage just like the rest doing the same work (with the exception of one self employed contract service provided at a nominal rate for on-call computer support work). The only difference is, being a part owner, I'm entitled to share in any profit when any dispersements are made (which are only done when individual tax rates would be lower than the corporate rate).

Psychicwolf · Post by **Psychicwolf** » 08-22-2007 02:17 PM

Some how this thread got off topic, I apologize to the Mods.

Divinorumus · Post by **Divinorumus** » 08-22-2007 02:25 PM

not really, there is still that other healthcare thread. Point is, there are people working to pay their own way, and it's not easy for us either. And the rest should realize, you're gonna break our backs if you put other folks burdens into our backs too. Bring back personal responsibly and hold parents responsible for their own issues and own children, or you're gonna kill us all. Yes, we all need to show compassion and share when we can, but force everyone else's issues onto the rest of us and we'll have no choice but to give up, quite, and get in the handout line too. Fiscal calculators do not lie.

SquidInk · Post by **SquidInk** » 08-22-2007 03:34 PM

Shimmering Auro wrote: Forget about 'national' health care. It appears the real answer to this problem is to place the burden of health care in the hands of each individual state.

Alaska has a program, Denali Kid Care. A lot of information about this program can be found here. http://hss.state.ak.us/dhcs/DenaliKidCare/default.htm

The Feds are hopeless, worthless, and out of touch with the realities facing the people they are supposed to represent. It would be wonderful if each state would take some time to review this probram and use this information as a model to guide them toward real solutions to this health care crisis.

Force your state reps. to acknowledge that if one state can provide a program, every state can. No more excuses! State reps. need to take action... and for crying out loud, DO something.

Take this problem out of the Fed's hands and make it a local (state) issue. Put your local rep's feet to the fire.

I couldn't agree more. I strongly believe this would result in 50 different healthcare options (more or less). Let the states which can't (or won't) create an affordable environment for the people suffer in the form of population/ tax revenue loss.

The super giant private insurance companies who are already price gouging Americans on health insurance have found a champion in Dumbya.

This is a HUGE factor in the overpricing of all healthcare. It should be step two in the reformation process. Those companies (all insurance policies are re-insured, in a very large and complicated pyramid scheme, by about half a dozen corporations globally) are profiting from illness and suffering in so many different ways it boggles the brain, from malpractice to HMOs to premium investments, all while we go broke or live with the pain - it's time for it to stop.

From "redlining" to exclusion clauses, and from "telematic" technology, to rent seeking, modern insurance is simply bad business.

SquidInk · Post by **SquidInk** » 08-22-2007 03:35 PM

HB3 wrote: One of the reasons we need a strong national culture: it's a form of "extended family." We sure don't have that now, do we?

Please explain... I'm not following you here.

spaceprophet · Post by **spaceprophet** » 08-24-2007 10:06 PM

I think what that means is by deregulation and eliminating taxes is that corporations will suddenly and inexplicalby grow a heart and quit the profiteering, price-gouging, collusion and unfair market manipulation.

Or maybe that communities will step up to the plate and find a way for the uninsured to be covered in the wake of a vacuum of taxes or deregulation.

Neither of these has ever proven to be the case. In fact, it has been historically proven that both entities pocket the money and the problem only becomes worse.

Case in point, the deregulation and the elimination of the tax burden with energy companies. In California, they saw the cost of energy to their homes increase as much as 200% during peak usage times.

It's all about greed people.

You're either one of two things. You look at a child dying of cancer and say, "Damn, that's a shame. Why?" Or, you look at a child dying and say, "There's got to be a way I can take the parents to the cleaners here."

That is America.

Why do you think people are fighting against overhauling the system so hard? Because they are making a living off the death and suffering of others. A rather healthy living I might add.

America is about selfishness, greed, and capitalizing off the misfortune of others. It's in the history books. Just ask the world if you think I'm wrong.

spaceprophet · Post by **spaceprophet** » 08-24-2007 10:15 PM

Divinorumus wrote: you're gonna break our backs if you put other folks burdens into our backs too.

You mean like the entire country of Mexico? The entire country of Mexico wouldn't break your back would it Div?

Why do you think they're all desperately trying to pole vault across the border?

You don't want to take care of hard working blue collar Americans, but you want to give away the farm to every Latin American country this side of the hemisphere.

What gives? Or should I say, what Divs?

Part of the reason, and I stress part, why health care is among the worst on the planet is because of unpaid emergency room visits by illegal immigrants. That's a fact.

Divinorumus · Post by **Divinorumus** » 08-25-2007 01:29 AM

Why do you think they're all desperately trying to pole vault across the border?

Well, most are probably looking for a good job. And yeah, just like your own kind, if you put out a plate of free entitlements, they will eat them up too, just like your home grown entitlement users. I don't care who you are, illegal or legal, the idea of free fish (unless you are crippled or too ill to work) is wrong for anyone. When I see someone with two working legs and arms and eyes using food stamps, I don't care if you are a legal or illegal human, both cases pisses me off equally. Hell, pick either one and toss them back over the fence, I don't care and nor see any difference between the two (sorry, I'm not a bigot racist gang member who can see which one I should have picked instead). You don't understand me, do you? I see only humans. :p