I'm not happy to see ANY president or Congress rape my Bill of Rights! It would take a LOT more than what's happened to make me even *think* of giving them up. They are what makes America great -- what differentiates us from any petty dictatorship around the globe.
How about my other post? Logic is always a good idea.
Urgent Action Item!
Moderator: Super Moderators
Please, everyone, call Senator Russell Feingold 202-224-5323 and plead with him to lead a filibuster if and when Majority Leader Frist seeks cloture on the bill on warrantless spying. It's okay to leave a message after hours. TIA.
We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. B. Franklin
-
Cynthia Lynn
- Pirate
- Posts: 2703
- Joined: 06-12-2001 02:00 AM
SooSoo wrote: Hey Iris, I really don't want to get into a political debate, but I will answer your question. In the words of a very wise friend of mine, "If we're all dead, nothing else really matters."
Thank God the Founding Fathers and the American Revolutionary Patriots were not so easily kowtowed by such rhetoric (or else we might still be speaking the Queen's English while laboring under unfair taxation).
The govt is not interested in spying on you and me and in wiretapping our conversations.
That's not the point.
We Americans are the fortunate recipients of something more precious than gold.
BILL OF RIGHTS
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
Amendment III
No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
-
Cynthia Lynn
- Pirate
- Posts: 2703
- Joined: 06-12-2001 02:00 AM
Welcome to the forum, CL! 
Thanks for the URL. That's the Heather Wilson (R-NM) bill passing through the House.
http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=15645
(Nixon must be rolling in his grave.)
Now, let's hope that Feingold and company can louse things up sufficiently in the Senate until recess, since the Senate hasn't been able to get it together on this yet.
Then we'll see how the court battle over the legality of this comes out.
Please, folks, call Sen. Feingold, as outlined above.
Thanks for the URL. That's the Heather Wilson (R-NM) bill passing through the House.
http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=15645
(Nixon must be rolling in his grave.)
Now, let's hope that Feingold and company can louse things up sufficiently in the Senate until recess, since the Senate hasn't been able to get it together on this yet.
Then we'll see how the court battle over the legality of this comes out.
Please, folks, call Sen. Feingold, as outlined above.
We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. B. Franklin
I guess I'm the oldest poster in this forum. I've lived through the Great Depression. WWII, The Korean War (we stilll have troops rhere!), the Cold War, Viet Nam, Bosnia/Kosovo (still got troops there, too), and assorted minor skirmishes to protect the citizens of other countries = and
Since 1979, the repeated attacks on American citizens by Islamic fundamentalists while one Democrat administration and one
Republican administration after another took little or no action.
More Americans died on 9/11/01 than on 12/7/41. Many more American soldiers were killed on D=Day (IN ONE DAY) than all Americans killed by today's terrorists. In those days. the Moslem Mid=East and the Moslems in Yugoslovakia were supporting Hitler.
Back then, we knew our country was in a WAR for our survival, and, regardless of anyone's particular political preferences, we darn well knew we had to make extraordinary sacrifices if we didn't want to live under a totalitarian dictatorship. Our Democratic president and Democratic Congress imposed the military draft, rationing of tires. meat products, shoes, gasoline, anything made of nylon or wool, etc.
Suspected spies and the entire Japanese-American population were held in special camps (no judicial warrants or trials). Despite that, a volunteer Japanese-American unit (Go for Broke) proved their devotion to their adopted country and ended up the most decorated American military unit.
Navajo Ameriicans left their reservation to serve as the Navajo Code Talkers in the Pacific theater -- a code never broken.
Many of our mothers and other women were busy building ships, planes, tanks, and all the other accouterments needed to wage rhe war -- not only for "our boys" but also for our British and Russian allies. We kids were saving our nickels and dimes to buy savings stamps, and almost every American worker was buying savings bonds. We kids were also collecting every bit of scrap metal and old rubber tires and inner tubes with no thought of payment (the Boy Scouts in my town were outstanding scavengers; we Girl Scouts were collecting knitted socks, cookies, etc. made by mothers and grandmothers and magazines and comic books and packing it all up to send to our troops).
Every American == from the youngest to the oldest, here or abroad -- knew that "Loose Lips Sink Ships." School started each morning with recitation of our Pledge of Allegiance.
German POW camps were scattered around this country (one of my uncles == a gentle giant) was a guard at such a camp and no POW was released until the war ended.
My parents' younger brothers and my older cousins (and my future husband) all served in the military -- and they served until they were killed, disabled, or the war ended.
Anyway, guess why the Americans, British and Russians of those days are called nowadays "the greatest generation" and, as Churchill said of the RAF, "never have so many owed so much to so few."
Immediately after the WTC towers fell, I referred to Will Durant's exhaustive world history, Vol. III, The Age of Faith to learn more of the beginning of the Islamic religion.
The first book I bought after 9/11 was an English translation of the Koran, because I wanted to better understand that religion. I bought the "kindest" translation I could find. It was translated by A. J. Arberry and published in 1955. He lived in Egypt for 30 years, had many Moslem friends, and was a professor at Cairo University before returning to England and teaching at Cambridge.
I urge any of you unfamiliar with the Koran to give it your close attention.
Incidentally, I didnt vote for George Bush, but he is my president and your president and my loved ones' president in a time of perhaps the greatest danger my country has ever faced, and I don't like it a bit when I compare the response of so many of today's Americans with those of my youth. After all, thousands of citizens of other countries risk their lives every day just to try to get here, and millions more would like to if they could.
What other country would you rather live in?
Since 1979, the repeated attacks on American citizens by Islamic fundamentalists while one Democrat administration and one
Republican administration after another took little or no action.
More Americans died on 9/11/01 than on 12/7/41. Many more American soldiers were killed on D=Day (IN ONE DAY) than all Americans killed by today's terrorists. In those days. the Moslem Mid=East and the Moslems in Yugoslovakia were supporting Hitler.
Back then, we knew our country was in a WAR for our survival, and, regardless of anyone's particular political preferences, we darn well knew we had to make extraordinary sacrifices if we didn't want to live under a totalitarian dictatorship. Our Democratic president and Democratic Congress imposed the military draft, rationing of tires. meat products, shoes, gasoline, anything made of nylon or wool, etc.
Suspected spies and the entire Japanese-American population were held in special camps (no judicial warrants or trials). Despite that, a volunteer Japanese-American unit (Go for Broke) proved their devotion to their adopted country and ended up the most decorated American military unit.
Navajo Ameriicans left their reservation to serve as the Navajo Code Talkers in the Pacific theater -- a code never broken.
Many of our mothers and other women were busy building ships, planes, tanks, and all the other accouterments needed to wage rhe war -- not only for "our boys" but also for our British and Russian allies. We kids were saving our nickels and dimes to buy savings stamps, and almost every American worker was buying savings bonds. We kids were also collecting every bit of scrap metal and old rubber tires and inner tubes with no thought of payment (the Boy Scouts in my town were outstanding scavengers; we Girl Scouts were collecting knitted socks, cookies, etc. made by mothers and grandmothers and magazines and comic books and packing it all up to send to our troops).
Every American == from the youngest to the oldest, here or abroad -- knew that "Loose Lips Sink Ships." School started each morning with recitation of our Pledge of Allegiance.
German POW camps were scattered around this country (one of my uncles == a gentle giant) was a guard at such a camp and no POW was released until the war ended.
My parents' younger brothers and my older cousins (and my future husband) all served in the military -- and they served until they were killed, disabled, or the war ended.
Anyway, guess why the Americans, British and Russians of those days are called nowadays "the greatest generation" and, as Churchill said of the RAF, "never have so many owed so much to so few."
Immediately after the WTC towers fell, I referred to Will Durant's exhaustive world history, Vol. III, The Age of Faith to learn more of the beginning of the Islamic religion.
The first book I bought after 9/11 was an English translation of the Koran, because I wanted to better understand that religion. I bought the "kindest" translation I could find. It was translated by A. J. Arberry and published in 1955. He lived in Egypt for 30 years, had many Moslem friends, and was a professor at Cairo University before returning to England and teaching at Cambridge.
I urge any of you unfamiliar with the Koran to give it your close attention.
Incidentally, I didnt vote for George Bush, but he is my president and your president and my loved ones' president in a time of perhaps the greatest danger my country has ever faced, and I don't like it a bit when I compare the response of so many of today's Americans with those of my youth. After all, thousands of citizens of other countries risk their lives every day just to try to get here, and millions more would like to if they could.
What other country would you rather live in?
Last edited by Serenity on 09-30-2006 12:41 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Serenity wrote: I guess I'm the oldest poster in this forum. I've lived through the Great Depression. WWII, The Korean War (we stilll have troops rhere!), the Cold War, Viet Nam, Bosnia/Kosovo (still got troops there, too), and assorted minor skirmishes to protect the citizens of other countries = and
Since 1979, the repeated attacks on American citizens by Islamic fundamentalists while one Democrat administration and one
Republican administration after another took little or no action.
More Americans died on 9/11/01 than on 12/7/41. Many more American soldiers were killed on D=Day (IN ONE DAY) than all Americans killed by today's terrorists. In those days. the Moslem Mid=East and the Moslems in Yugoslovakia were supporting Hitler.
Back then, we knew our country was in a WAR for our survival, and, regardless of anyone's particular political preferences, we darn well knew we had to make extraordinary sacrifices if we didn't want to live under a totalitarian dictatorship. Our Democratic president and Democratic Congress imposed the military draft, rationing of tires. meat products, shoes, gasoline, anything made of nylon or wool, etc.
Suspected spies and the entire Japanese-American population were held in special camps (no judicial warrants or trials). Despite that, a volunteer Japanese-American unit (Go for Broke) proved their devotion to their adopted country and ended up the most decorated American military unit.
Navajo Ameriicans left their reservation to serve as the Navajo Code Talkers in the Pacific theater -- a code never broken.
Many of our mothers and other women were busy building ships, planes, tanks, and all the other accouterments needed to wage rhe war -- not only for "our boys" but also for our British and Russian allies. We kids were saving our nickels and dimes to buy savings stamps, and almost every American worker was buying savings bonds. We kids were also collecting every bit of scrap metal and old rubber tires and inner tubes with no thought of payment (the Boy Scouts in my town were outstanding scavengers; we Girl Scouts were collecting knitted socks, cookies, etc. made by mothers and grandmothers and magazines and comic books and packing it all up to send to our troops).
Every American == from the youngest to the oldest, here or abroad -- knew that "Loose Lips Sink Ships." School started each morning with recitation of our Pledge of Allegiance.
German POW camps were scattered around this country (one of my uncles == a gentle giant) was a guard at such a camp and no POW was released until the war ended.
My parents' younger brothers and my older cousins (and my future husband) all served in the military -- and they served until they were killed, disabled, or the war ended.
Anyway, guess why the Americans, British and Russians of those days are called nowadays "the greatest generation" and, as Churchill said of the RAF, "never have so many owed so much to so few."
Immediately after the WTC towers fell, I referred to Will Durant's exhaustive world history, Vol. III, The Age of Faith to learn more of the beginning of the Islamic religion.
The first book I bought after 9/11 was an English translation of the Koran, because I wanted to better understand that religion. I bought the "kindest" translation I could find. It was translated by A. J. Arberry and published in 1955. He lived in Egypt for 30 years, had many Moslem friends, and was a professor at Cairo University before returning to England and teaching at Cambridge.
I urge any of you unfamiliar with the Koran to give it your close attention.
Incidentally, I didnt vote for George Bush, but he is my president and your president and my loved ones' president in a time of perhaps the greatest danger my country has ever faced, and I don't like it a bit when I compare the response of so many of today's Americans with those of my youth. After all, thousands of citizens of other countries risk their lives every day just to try to get here, and millions more would like to if they could.
What other country would you rather live in?
Serenity, WELCOME TO OUR portion of the FANTASTIC FORUM!
Having said that, Serenity,just because you have lived an age in history cannot be the defining method by which we critique our government's actitivies and war-actions.
Sorry, but your own personal story does not get very far with me, not at all! I suggest you actually read much more about the events leading to our fascist enterprises going on before us right now, and have patterns in the past, the history you lived,but apparently do not fully comprehend, since your and my former President Ike sought to have you know, too, the dangers inherent within our military-industrial complex and might.
There's so much more, but will leave if for you to define how you want to know your own personal history during WW-II, the AMERICAN WAR IN VIETNAM, and all the rest. Your own age does not excuse you from learning more.
Please stay with us, and read much more about the events leading us to the declaration's of supposed CLASH OF CIVILIZATION'S declared not much longer after the absurdly titled WAR ON TERROR was constructed.
Our continued presence in IRAQ is seen as an occupation.
To suggest or infer that I as an American citizen, in order to critique my nations' devious actions, or any actions, and should reside elsewhere, is an insult! Please don't foist that sort of attitude upon anyone, it's simply self-indulgent, and not constructive to why we are here.
Your own age, your own personal history, has nothing to do with it, my dear!
Ninerism
Serenity, hello and welcome to the FF. Your post deeply moved me, and I'm am SO glad to welcome a new pirate with some good old fashioned common sense. Ultra liberals, these days, seem so spoiled worrying about having their precious rights taken away by the "evil government." They treat this terrorist threat as if it is not real, nothing to be concerned about. Their lack of judgement leaves us all at risk. For many of them, George Bush and the government are a bigger terrorist threat than Islamic Jhihadists, themselves.
I appreciate what you have to say about sacrifice and heroism and love of country in WWII. The relative I love and respect the most fought valiantly for the 712th Tank Battalion in the Battle of the Buldge. I am truly humbled by his bravery and sacrifice. That generation was truly the Greatest Generation.
And now I will just request of you to please keep posting. This forum needs a good look at reality from time to time. Thank you again for your wonderful and thoughtful post.
I appreciate what you have to say about sacrifice and heroism and love of country in WWII. The relative I love and respect the most fought valiantly for the 712th Tank Battalion in the Battle of the Buldge. I am truly humbled by his bravery and sacrifice. That generation was truly the Greatest Generation.
And now I will just request of you to please keep posting. This forum needs a good look at reality from time to time. Thank you again for your wonderful and thoughtful post.
SooSoo wrote: Serenity, hello and welcome to the FF. Your post deeply moved me, and I'm am SO glad to welcome a new pirate with some good old fashioned common sense. Ultra liberals, these days, seem so spoiled worrying about having their precious rights taken away by the "evil government." They treat this terrorist threat as if it is not real, nothing to be concerned about. Their lack of judgement leaves us all at risk. For many of them, George Bush and the government are a bigger terrorist threat than Islamic Jhihadists, themselves.
I appreciate what you have to say about sacrifice and heroism and love of country in WWII. The relative I love and respect the most fought valiantly for the 712th Tank Battalion in the Battle of the Buldge. I am truly humbled by his bravery and sacrifice. That generation was truly the Greatest Generation.
And now I will just request of you to please keep posting. This forum needs a good look at reality from time to time. Thank you again for your wonderful and thoughtful post.
SooSoo, what sort of books do you read, anyway?
You think that lambasting "ultra liberals" is the way to define your arguments? That's more GIGO, and you ought to know better. Why don't you find out what we are saying, rather than seeking to troll about?!
The point that Serenity hopes to make is dismissing the many thousands of previous postings on our soon to be doomed portion of Politics, so you can gloat about that is you wish! She and you are both newbies here, but you think you can set us straight about the despicable realities of the New World Order, and contrived wars, and your precious PNAC?!
Your own limitations speak for themselves. Opposing fascists/corporatism is not about the honorability of going to war.
But you if you seek to remain spoiled as a True Believer, that's your choice, not mine. You could not be more simplistic in your 'analysis' of what is occurring right here and now with dangerous corporatism.
Your mocking sentiments about the 'evil government' underscores your vast ignorance.
By the way, no-one here has called you a reactionary fascist helper. But I wonder, why not?!
I now see you are another True Believer. What you call "good old fashioned common sense" never existed. You have nothing to say about President Eisenhower warning YOU not to become too financially dependent upon the largesse provided by the inter-connected military-industrial complex -- a phrase he is known to have used in his parting speech, warning YOU, and all American citizens.
What do you know about military-industrialism? Do you truly understand the nature of corporatism, or the 'money powers' as discussed by President Lincoln, who also warned YOU!
Corporatism is merely an euphemism for fascism. Do you understand that equation?
Ninerism
Serenity wrote: I guess I'm the oldest poster in this forum. I've lived through the Great Depression. WWII, The Korean War (we stilll have troops rhere!), the Cold War, Viet Nam, Bosnia/Kosovo (still got troops there, too), and assorted minor skirmishes to protect the citizens of other countries = and
Since 1979, the repeated attacks on American citizens by Islamic fundamentalists while one Democrat administration and one
Republican administration after another took little or no action.
More Americans died on 9/11/01 than on 12/7/41. Many more American soldiers were killed on D=Day (IN ONE DAY) than all Americans killed by today's terrorists. In those days. the Moslem Mid=East and the Moslems in Yugoslovakia were supporting Hitler.
Back then, we knew our country was in a WAR for our survival, and, regardless of anyone's particular political preferences, we darn well knew we had to make extraordinary sacrifices if we didn't want to live under a totalitarian dictatorship. Our Democratic president and Democratic Congress imposed the military draft, rationing of tires. meat products, shoes, gasoline, anything made of nylon or wool, etc.
Suspected spies and the entire Japanese-American population were held in special camps (no judicial warrants or trials). Despite that, a volunteer Japanese-American unit (Go for Broke) proved their devotion to their adopted country and ended up the most decorated American military unit.
Navajo Ameriicans left their reservation to serve as the Navajo Code Talkers in the Pacific theater -- a code never broken.
Many of our mothers and other women were busy building ships, planes, tanks, and all the other accouterments needed to wage rhe war -- not only for "our boys" but also for our British and Russian allies. We kids were saving our nickels and dimes to buy savings stamps, and almost every American worker was buying savings bonds. We kids were also collecting every bit of scrap metal and old rubber tires and inner tubes with no thought of payment (the Boy Scouts in my town were outstanding scavengers; we Girl Scouts were collecting knitted socks, cookies, etc. made by mothers and grandmothers and magazines and comic books and packing it all up to send to our troops).
Every American == from the youngest to the oldest, here or abroad -- knew that "Loose Lips Sink Ships." School started each morning with recitation of our Pledge of Allegiance.
German POW camps were scattered around this country (one of my uncles == a gentle giant) was a guard at such a camp and no POW was released until the war ended.
My parents' younger brothers and my older cousins (and my future husband) all served in the military -- and they served until they were killed, disabled, or the war ended.
Anyway, guess why the Americans, British and Russians of those days are called nowadays "the greatest generation" and, as Churchill said of the RAF, "never have so many owed so much to so few."
Immediately after the WTC towers fell, I referred to Will Durant's exhaustive world history, Vol. III, The Age of Faith to learn more of the beginning of the Islamic religion.
The first book I bought after 9/11 was an English translation of the Koran, because I wanted to better understand that religion. I bought the "kindest" translation I could find. It was translated by A. J. Arberry and published in 1955. He lived in Egypt for 30 years, had many Moslem friends, and was a professor at Cairo University before returning to England and teaching at Cambridge.
I urge any of you unfamiliar with the Koran to give it your close attention.
Incidentally, I didnt vote for George Bush, but he is my president and your president and my loved ones' president in a time of perhaps the greatest danger my country has ever faced, and I don't like it a bit when I compare the response of so many of today's Americans with those of my youth. After all, thousands of citizens of other countries risk their lives every day just to try to get here, and millions more would like to if they could.
What other country would you rather live in?
Why would you, Serenity, even think that those who are rationally critical of our United States government, ought to move to foreign land? That is an outrageous and arrogant statement.
Have you read any books critical of our military-industrial complex? Have you never read: THE PENTAGON OF POWER by the noted author, Lewis Mumford? Have you never read: MISSILE ENVY by Dr. Helen Caldicott, who lambasts those True Believers who are placing thier faith in Nuclear-faithing?
You speak of sacrifice as if you are the only person who can define it for all of us.
If you have never read the myriad books critical of various phases of our government, then you have allowed your 'critical mind' to atrophy, along with your olde age, and that is not something we can endorse.
Instead, you bottom-line end your story by suggesting that any who oppose the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan ought to leave! Shame on you!
Ninerism
Last edited by Ninerism9 on 10-01-2006 02:02 AM, edited 1 time in total.