Roberts Upheld D.C. French-Fry Arrest
Moderator: Super Moderators
In discipling children, the punishment should ALWAYS be proportional to the offense committed. My own parents stood up for me on principle MANY times. And they meted out appropriate punishments when I was in the wrong. I appreciate both.
With my own children, I acted in a similar manner, and my children both turned out to be exceptionally good people.
Some rules and laws are WRONG. That doesn't mean we should just accept them without question. What if Gandhi had never questioned the WRONG laws he opposed?
As a former Girl Scout leader (of 13 years), I ammended one of the "Girl Scout Laws" when teaching them to the girls in my troop. That one was "Respect authority." I ammended it to tell them to respect authority when that authority merited their respect -- otherwise, always QUESTION authority. That didn't mean to automatically disobey, but it meant to THINK. I had mothers come to me to THANK me for teaching this to their daughters. For instance, a teacher could be considered an authority, but what if that teacher was abusive? If they were taught never to question, but to simply respect and obey, then they were being conditioned to accept that abuse without question. Too many women have done so throughout history. I refused to teach them that. I digress, but it is still somewhat pertinent to this discussion.
What was done to this girl was WRONG. My own parents would have been irate, as would I if this had been my daughter. I went to bat for my kids many times over much less. So did my parents for my brothers and me. Spend a night in jail as a "tough love" punishment? Hogwash. I seriously doubt that eating a french fry was an act of civil disobedience for this girl. I suspect she was simply hungry. Good grief.
And you really think that disobeying a silly law by eating a french fry is going to lead to a life of crime??? Surely you aren't serious.
With my own children, I acted in a similar manner, and my children both turned out to be exceptionally good people.
Some rules and laws are WRONG. That doesn't mean we should just accept them without question. What if Gandhi had never questioned the WRONG laws he opposed?
As a former Girl Scout leader (of 13 years), I ammended one of the "Girl Scout Laws" when teaching them to the girls in my troop. That one was "Respect authority." I ammended it to tell them to respect authority when that authority merited their respect -- otherwise, always QUESTION authority. That didn't mean to automatically disobey, but it meant to THINK. I had mothers come to me to THANK me for teaching this to their daughters. For instance, a teacher could be considered an authority, but what if that teacher was abusive? If they were taught never to question, but to simply respect and obey, then they were being conditioned to accept that abuse without question. Too many women have done so throughout history. I refused to teach them that. I digress, but it is still somewhat pertinent to this discussion.
What was done to this girl was WRONG. My own parents would have been irate, as would I if this had been my daughter. I went to bat for my kids many times over much less. So did my parents for my brothers and me. Spend a night in jail as a "tough love" punishment? Hogwash. I seriously doubt that eating a french fry was an act of civil disobedience for this girl. I suspect she was simply hungry. Good grief.
And you really think that disobeying a silly law by eating a french fry is going to lead to a life of crime??? Surely you aren't serious.
Anchors Aweigh!Some "loving" mothers would let their 12 year old daughter spend the night in juvy lockup with gang members, hookers, drug addicts and thieves for eating a frelling French fry? PUKE! No wonder our country has gone to hell in a hand basket! People are willing to abuse their own children to further the control of the state.
Of course, these same people think the police are justified in shooting some poor slob in London because he looks "strange". Hell if the cops are justified in shooting people because they look "strange", then I am a dead woman! But the same minds produced the swill that Abu Ghraib was Frat fun, that state sponsored murder is fine and dandy, still insist there were WMD in Iraq, and BushCo is a loving Christian, so what do you expect?
Had to fix a typo.
Of course, these same people think the police are justified in shooting some poor slob in London because he looks "strange". Hell if the cops are justified in shooting people because they look "strange", then I am a dead woman! But the same minds produced the swill that Abu Ghraib was Frat fun, that state sponsored murder is fine and dandy, still insist there were WMD in Iraq, and BushCo is a loving Christian, so what do you expect?
Had to fix a typo.
Last edited by mudwoman on 07-26-2005 10:45 PM, edited 1 time in total.
mudwoman wrote: Some "loving" mothers would let their 12 year old daughter spend the night in juvy lockup with gang members, hookers, drug addicts and thieves for eating a frelling French fry? PUKE! No wonder our country has gone to hell in a hand basket! People are willing to abuse their own children to further the control of the state.
Of course, these same people think the police are justified in shooting some poor slob in London because he looks "strange". Hell if the cops are justified in shooting people because they look "strange", then I am a dead woman! But the same minds produced the swill that Abu Ghraib was Frat fun, that state sponsored murder is fine and dandy, and still insist there were WMD in Iraq, and BushCo is a loving Christian, so what do you expect?
You said it better.
I wanna PUKE, too. Anchors Aweigh!
I see this exactly like you do, Joolz. I had and still have a very loving relationship with my kids. There's no way they'd have locked one of mine up for eating a freakin' French fry, regardless of where they did it.Joolz wrote: Dadgum... I'm sure glad you weren't my mommy! It was a farking FRENCH FRY, fer pete's sake!
But... having been raised by Republicans, I can tell you that Cherry's idea of appropriate punishment sounds exactly like a typical dyed-in-the-wool Republican response to me.
Most of them think "spare the rod, spoil the child" means you need to take out a rod and beat the poor kid with it. No kidding. They don't realize that the shepherd never beat the lambs with the rod, they merely guided them with it.
Last edited by Iris on 07-26-2005 10:40 PM, edited 1 time in total.
We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. B. Franklin
Iris wrote:
But... having been raised by Republicans, I can tell you that Cherry's idea of appropriate punishment sounds exactly like a typical dyed-in-the-wool Republican response to me.
Most of them think "spare the rod, spoil the child" means you need to take out a rod and beat the poor kid with it. No kidding. They don't realize that the shepherd never beat the lambs with the rod, they merely guided them with it.
It does not sound like a Republican response to me and I don't think, as you call it that "most of them", would approve of this approach!
racehorse
Iris wrote: Most of them think "spare the rod, spoil the child" means you need to take out a rod and beat the poor kid with it. No kidding. They don't realize that the shepherd never beat the lambs with the rod, they merely guided them with it.
What an excellent point you make. Just goes to show how easily words can be twisted from their original meaning.
Anchors Aweigh!I should have said "some of them." Nevertheless, I find what Cherry said to be in character. I truly hope you are more correct than I am on this.racehorse wrote: It does not sound like a Republican response to me and I don't think, as you call it that "most of them", would approve of this approach!
We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. B. Franklin
The Good men and women of Kosovo butchered their neighbors in the snap of the fingers. Good Germans sold their neighbors to be loaded into cattle cars for favor from the Brown Shirts. Why? Because they believed that they were doing Good in the name of the state. They wanted to live the dream that was in fact, a veiled nightmare. You can bet the farm that Good Amerkans will do the same when the time comes.
Anyone who believes, for one damn second, the lies spewed by a gang of sociopathic sadists is capable of anything, including abusing their own children to support the state. Hell, kids get beat up in lock up, abused, humiliated, spit on, cursed at, and see and hear things that no 12 year old should see or hear. If the price that some are willing to pay to follow little rules is their own children's safety, you better believe that they don't give a rat's ass about you, me or especially some nameless brown skinned guy.
Anyone who believes, for one damn second, the lies spewed by a gang of sociopathic sadists is capable of anything, including abusing their own children to support the state. Hell, kids get beat up in lock up, abused, humiliated, spit on, cursed at, and see and hear things that no 12 year old should see or hear. If the price that some are willing to pay to follow little rules is their own children's safety, you better believe that they don't give a rat's ass about you, me or especially some nameless brown skinned guy.
mudwoman wrote: The Good men and women of Kosovo butchered their neighbors in the snap of the fingers. Good Germans sold their neighbors to be loaded into cattle cars for favor from the Brown Shirts. Why? Because they believed that they were doing Good in the name of the state. They wanted to live the dream that was in fact, a veiled nightmare. You can bet the farm that Good Amerkans will do the same when the time comes.
Anyone who believes, for one damn second, the lies spewed by a gang of sociopathic sadists is capable of anything, including abusing their own children to support the state. Hell, kids get beat up in lock up, abused, humiliated, spit on, cursed at, and see and hear things that no 12 year old should see or hear. If the price that some are willing to pay to follow little rules is their own children's safety, you better believe that they don't give a rat's ass about you, me or especially some nameless brown skinned guy.
They did what they did to save their own asses. Cowards all. Turning ones head when others are being violated lowers our ability to become what the maker intended. IMO. We will never acheive the next level of enlightenment as humans when we deny basic human rights and do not defend them with all our resources and abilities.
I have worked with twelve year old children for over a dozen years and find this whole incident despicable and inhuman. A FRECKIN FRENCH FRY! Eating is a basic right. It is on the level of survival not a choice. To make laws against basic needs is to cross the line of a fundamental truth. Our need for Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. When officers of the law follow the lead of the gutless polititians (judges politize too) and enforce unjust and ludicris laws it prevents us from grasping true freedom.
Jesus was twelve when He disobeyed his parents and entered the temple to do the right thing...He later defied all of the leaders of his born faith, again to do the right thing. I guess what I am saying is that in order to rid ourselves of the slavery that binds us today we too must let go of our rigidity and see the truth for what it is and is not.
What were and are the intentions of the scorned defiant ones: Jesus, Gandhi, Mother Teresa,and many others? Peace and the ability to live in peace. How can we teach our children basic values and respect when we don't even address their basic need for respect as a person. I know lets incarserate them and open a can of whoop ass on em. that'll teach em. Children learn what they live and we are teaching the world that we hate and don't repsect them. Why would they give a cow about what we want...you know their raw resources.
"Children let us love one another..." 1 John.
Don't get me wrong, laws are important, yet they need to be just and not overbearing. How can a young girl be violating a just law by eating a french fry? Tell me. Go ahead your honor spit it out. Opps we would'nt want to break any laws now:rolleyes:
Last edited by vigo on 07-27-2005 06:08 AM, edited 1 time in total.
Well, better late than never, I suppose... Joe Quinn.
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Cherry Kelly
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Juvenile lockup is not the same as general lockup for adults. AND even general lockup for adults is not the same as it used to be - but I guess many here seem to be lacking in information. Too caught up in old tv shows? Maybe SOME people here need to do a bit more information look up or talk to guards who work at the overnight lockups.
[[[For general information - I have stated before I have family members who work as jail guards, one works at an adult processing center where they bring in offenders for processing to various jails. Another family member (now retired) worked in the juvenile division for close to 30 years.]]]
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Now as for sparing the rod and spoiling the child - who is the IDIOT who believes in use of a physical "rod" or "beating" a kid -- good grief...such lunacy... APPROPRIATE discipline yes, inappropriate - no.
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[[[For general information - I have stated before I have family members who work as jail guards, one works at an adult processing center where they bring in offenders for processing to various jails. Another family member (now retired) worked in the juvenile division for close to 30 years.]]]
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Now as for sparing the rod and spoiling the child - who is the IDIOT who believes in use of a physical "rod" or "beating" a kid -- good grief...such lunacy... APPROPRIATE discipline yes, inappropriate - no.
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Cherry Kelly wrote: Juvenile lockup is not the same as general lockup for adults. AND even general lockup for adults is not the same as it used to be - but I guess many here seem to be lacking in information. Too caught up in old tv shows? Maybe SOME people here need to do a bit more information look up or talk to guards who work at the overnight lockups.
BS. You think there aren't gang members, hookers, drug addicts and thieves in the juvvy? Maybe in Pleasantville where you live they are all sweet and nice kids who just shoplifted something for kicks, but not here. I don't watch old TV shows. And I DO know a guard who works at the juvvy here. He tells horror stories.
Anchors Aweigh!