Voting With Your Heart Is Immoral?

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Riddick
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Voting With Your Heart Is Immoral?

Post by Riddick » 07-30-2016 03:11 AM

The political stakes in the UK and the US are high, yet both countries have of late embraced impractical candidates with far-left ideologies. In the US, Bernie Sanders supporters clung to their candidate even when his remaining in the race diverted Hillary Clinton from focusing on Donald Trump.

Finding a candidate who embraces your values is understandable, crucial even. But fervent idealism, which places support for a certain candidate above all practical consequences of that support, is foolhardy. According to ethicists, it’s also immoral.

To express fidelity to a worldview, wave a flag or paint your face in team colors is not the purpose of voting; it's to produce outcomes, says Jason Brennan, a philosopher at Georgetown University and author of The Ethics of Voting.

In general, two schools of ethics have bearing on how votes are cast. Utilitarianism suggests the best action is whichever creates maximum happiness for the greatest number of people—i.e. it’s best to vote with an eye to political consequences.

On the flip side, a deontological approach argues the action itself, rather than the consequences, has moral worth, and so it would be acceptable to, say, champion Sanders regardless of how this might affect long-term US politics.

Ilya Somin, law professor at George Mason University, says it's important to balance principles with the consequences. He suggests creating an equation to multiply how much one favors a candidate by that candidate’s chances of having a positive impact.

"If they’re smart, they’ll vote for the candidate likely to best produce the outcome they want," says Brennan. "If voting for a far-left or far-right candidate means that you’re just going to lose the election, then you’ve brought the world further away from justice rather than closer to it."

What can be lost in strategic voting, however, is nuance—opting for the more practical candidate usually means opting for something closer to the status quo. That leaves limited opportunities for perspectives that fall outside party lines.

"You enter a polling booth, there’s a complicated decision floating around in your head, and the best you can say is, 'I vote for Hillary Clinton,' or 'I vote for Donald Trump,'" says Eric Pacuit, a philosophy professor at the University of Maryland. "It’s very limited."

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Re: Voting With Your Heart Is Immoral?

Post by kbot » 07-30-2016 07:21 AM

Would the world BE better if people actually voted with their heart???????

Consider the contrary view - we vote with our brain. Our brain tells us that we would be better by voting for purely economic issues, and we see where this has gotten us with jobs being sent overseas for decades now. We've voted with our brains to effect better trade laws, or tax laws or to decrease (or increase) regulations - all have the net effect of sending more jobs overseas and increasing the number of poor among us.

We've voted with our brains and as an end result enacted laws which have resulted in reduced revenues to cities an towns which have in turn resulted in the loss of funding for schools for education as well as for such after school programs in the arts like music, meaning more kids find themselves with plenty of time on their hands and s the crime rate increases.

We've voted with our brains and see a maddening system of central banks where we can't even save our money because we don't earn interest anymore.

We've voted with our brain and elected officials who support strip mining - displacing whole towns and wrecking whole ecosystems.

We've voted with or brains and rushed fracking and have increased the rate of respiratory illnesses for those living in the area where fracking is done.

We vote with or brains and we allow politicians to circumvent and weaken labeling laws which label foods as containing a certain percentage of GMO product and allowing us to make and educated choice.

We vote with our brain and give corporations "personhood" status and in the process have raised corporate interests about the lives of actual people.

We vote with our brains and allow tax breaks for companies resulting in a nonstop game pitting states and communities against one another, shifting more tax burden onto the middle class and resulting in les services to the middle class and poor.

Voting with our brains has gotten us nowhere. It's time to stop being analytical and time to start actually caring more........
There you go man, keep as cool as you can. Face piles and piles of trials with smiles. It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave. And keep on thinking free. (Moody Blues)

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Re: Voting With Your Heart Is Immoral?

Post by Doka » 07-30-2016 08:47 AM

Good article Riddick, very thought provoking . :D


It is what it is . A "Crap Shoot" at best, and always has been. We have what is in front of us and asked to vote on it, that's it. For me it is pretty simple, who would hurt the people less, by their ideology alone, because that is what they are, that's what we are going to get. My head, heart and emotions do not change a thing about them.

If you think people have been only using their "brains" in the voting booth, I need change for a $3.00 bill........

In my opinion , Obama got in for several reasons, most all running from emotions, they hated Bush, he was black, spoke well and Joe Biden, called him "clean". Nobody knew a thing about him, and where insulted if asked. The word "Vetted" maybe had something to do with a"kennel"?

The real problem is , too many people voting for as many reasons. Humans tend not agree on much of anything.

It is NOT MY ELECTION. IT IS AN ELECTION.

Well, for what ever......GO VOTE , IT DOES COUNT!
Last edited by Doka on 07-30-2016 09:17 AM, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Voting With Your Heart Is Immoral?

Post by Doka » 07-30-2016 09:01 AM

Kbot:Quote...

"Voting with our brains has gotten us nowhere. It's time to stop being analytical and caring more......"




Really? :confused: Have you "Hugged a Terrorist" today?
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Re: Voting With Your Heart Is Immoral?

Post by Raggedyann » 07-30-2016 01:05 PM

Nobody knew anything about Obama, except that he worked as a community organiser, spent spent 8 yrs in the Senate, and local politics in Chicago prior to that. He was born in Hawaii, he graduated Harvard and became a Professor of law, he smoked pot regularly in his younger years, he had written books about his political beliefs and his life. How he met Michelle and their early life together was published on every web site and magazine in the world along with anecdotes about his life with his Mom and Father and Grandparents. That about covers all of his life.
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Re: Voting With Your Heart Is Immoral?

Post by kbot » 07-31-2016 07:23 AM

Doka wrote:Kbot:Quote...

"Voting with our brains has gotten us nowhere. It's time to stop being analytical and caring more......"

Really? :confused: Have you "Hugged a Terrorist" today?
Was actually referring to some other brilliant decisions - Flint Michigan comes to mind.........
There you go man, keep as cool as you can. Face piles and piles of trials with smiles. It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave. And keep on thinking free. (Moody Blues)

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Re: Voting With Your Heart Is Immoral?

Post by Doka » 07-31-2016 08:12 AM

Raggedyann wrote:Nobody knew anything about Obama, except that he worked as a community organiser, spent spent 8 yrs in the Senate, and local politics in Chicago prior to that. He was born in Hawaii, he graduated Harvard and became a Professor of law, he smoked pot regularly in his younger years, he had written books about his political beliefs and his life. How he met Michelle and their early life together was published on every web site and magazine in the world along with anecdotes about his life with his Mom and Father and Grandparents. That about covers all of his life.


And you know that , because after 8 years you just looked it up, maybe ? I'm not finding fault, it is just that most people didn't know a thing about him then, nor do they know what he has been "Up To" now. Any body can be created on paper. .
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Re: Voting With Your Heart Is Immoral?

Post by Doka » 07-31-2016 08:29 AM

kbot wrote:
Doka wrote:Kbot:Quote...

"Voting with our brains has gotten us nowhere. It's time to stop being analytical and caring more......"

Really? :confused: Have you "Hugged a Terrorist" today?
Was actually referring to some other brilliant decisions - Flint Michigan comes to mind.........


Sorry Kbot, some times not sure where my thinking is taking me, so I'm really not good at knowing what's in someone else's mind, just know most people by their "actions"on the forum more by words, .
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Re: Voting With Your Heart Is Immoral?

Post by kbot » 07-31-2016 12:10 PM

Doka wrote:
kbot wrote:
Doka wrote:Kbot:Quote...

"Voting with our brains has gotten us nowhere. It's time to stop being analytical and caring more......"

Really? :confused: Have you "Hugged a Terrorist" today?
Was actually referring to some other brilliant decisions - Flint Michigan comes to mind.........


Sorry Kbot, some times not sure where my thinking is taking me, so I'm really not good at knowing what's in someone else's mind, just know most people by their "actions"on the forum more by words, .
That's OK :) - I'm all for sending terrorists to meet their 72 virgins post haste - I just get ripped at paying "public servants" who do a crappy job and expect more. My patience with politicians who favor corporations over people has rapidly dwindled during this political cycle. No matter what I can't see Hillary taking Bernie's message concerning Wall St as anything beyond mere talk just to shut up the senator and his supporters....... As an aside, I starting reading The Jungle (never got to read it in high school......). It's made grocery shopping a WHOLE new experience despite the story's age.
There you go man, keep as cool as you can. Face piles and piles of trials with smiles. It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave. And keep on thinking free. (Moody Blues)

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Re: Voting With Your Heart Is Immoral?

Post by Raggedyann » 07-31-2016 07:08 PM

Doka wrote:
Raggedyann wrote:Nobody knew anything about Obama, except that he worked as a community organiser, spent spent 8 yrs in the Senate, and local politics in Chicago prior to that. He was born in Hawaii, he graduated Harvard and became a Professor of law, he smoked pot regularly in his younger years, he had written books about his political beliefs and his life. How he met Michelle and their early life together was published on every web site and magazine in the world along with anecdotes about his life with his Mom and Father and Grandparents. That about covers all of his life.


And you know that , because after 8 years you just looked it up, maybe ? I'm not finding fault, it is just that most people didn't know a thing about him then, nor do they know what he has been "Up To" now. Any body can be created on paper. .
Actually I wrote this off the top of my head. All these things have been well known since he was running against Hillary in 2008. Where on earth have you been?
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Re: Voting With Your Heart Is Immoral?

Post by Cherry Kelly » 08-01-2016 09:02 AM

ya and fake votes -- for Obama --
*In 59 voting districts in the Philadelphia region, Obama received 100% of the votes with not even a single vote recorded for Romney. (A mathematical and statistical impossibility).

* In 21 districts in Wood County Ohio, Obama received 100% of the votes where GOP inspectors were illegally removed from their polling locations – and not one single vote was recorded for Romney. (Another statistical impossibility).

* In Wood County Ohio, 106,258 voted in a county with only 98,213 eligible voters.

* In St. Lucie County, FL, there were 175,574 registered eligible voters but 247,713 votes were cast.

* The National SEAL Museum, a polling location in St. Lucie County, FL had a 158% voter turnout.

* Palm Beach County, FL had a 141% voter turnout.

* In Ohio County, Obama won by 108% of the total number of eligible voters.

NOTE: Obama won in every state that did not require a Photo ID and lost in every state that did require a Photo ID in order to vote.

Imagine that! is this voter fraud?

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Re: Voting With Your Heart Is Immoral?

Post by Riddick » 08-01-2016 05:37 PM

Cherry Kelly wrote:Imagine that! is this voter fraud?
And what is it, if it isn't? Just a widespread rash of perfectly honest mistakes? Yeah, right.

No doubt, fraudulent voting is unethical & immoral. But that doesn't stop folks from doing it.

Rightly or wrongly, it's the old school idea of "Winning isn't everything - it's the ONLY thing!"
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Re: Voting With Your Heart Is Immoral?

Post by Cherry Kelly » 08-03-2016 09:36 AM

Riddick -- yup fraud and goes back a longer way as well. Sadly.

It is one reason I support Voter ID and pre-registration at least a month prior to an election. (Only exception on that would be military who have returned home - who can bring in discharge papers to their precinct.)
((We do have voter ID here, still have to show a pix but most of the time, just the registration card is more than enough as your name is on the registration book and you just sign and initial - then vote.)

I would also get rid of all electronic (computer voting machines). Paper ballots only and at least one rep from each major party and other minor parties - to double count votes. ALSO NO - absolutely NO results posted, discussed by any media source until ALL states have finished voting!

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