Intentionally tanking the economy

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Cherry Kelly
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Post by Cherry Kelly » 03-26-2014 10:17 AM

kbot -- long time back the area voted to allow the floating boat casinos here -- oh ya monies from that -- to go to schools. (Of course - it goes where? general coffers) MO side. AND now they are hiring -- part time workers as summer is coming and yes draws more people (better weather to drive on roads).

There was a dog racing track here - did good, but of course got shut down. There is a NASCAR race track here, draws good crowds. KS side

(KC metro - fights on businesses with tax incentives so lot of back and forth business places.)

They try raising taxes -- for the children - and people have finally said NO - cause it doesn't. Schools that were closed at least one has been remodeled and made into apartments for low income people. Another is being remodeled and will be a school again.

----
As for Obama - oh gee another deadline moved. Its not going to work as younger people not signing up!

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kbot
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Post by kbot » 03-26-2014 11:04 AM

Same here. Over in Newport they had jai ali (sp?) back in the 70s. Now it slots. Just north of Providence they also have slots. North of Boston they had a horse track (Suffolk Downs) that is now used for slots. Also used to be a dog track in Raynham that is shut down. A couple of NASCAR tracks - one a few miles from my home and another in New Hampshire.

Plus there are the bigger casinos in Connecticut - Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun.

Can't speak for the income that the states get, but from what I've heard, its not doing much good.
What the hell are we fighting for? Ah, just surrender and it won't hurt at all. You just got time to say your prayers. Yeah, while you're waiting for the hammer to fall. (Brian May of Queen)

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Post by voguy » 03-26-2014 04:55 PM

Just remember, KBOT, no politician was ever elected because they had an ability to help people, or the wisdom to solve problems.

They were elected on the same merits we elected our prom King and Queen in high school. The basis is if you "like them"

Which I might add shows the intelligence of the average Canadian and United States voter.

BTW, on minimum wage, I've never seen any evidence that raising a wage in this manor significantly improves the business, quality of goods, or the overall well-being of the employees. However, our local McDonald's franchise (28 stores) is looking at cutting people, reducing FT employees, automating more (processing food), and closing inside services. So tell me again how just tossing money at minimum wage is good?
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson

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kbot
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Post by kbot » 03-26-2014 06:42 PM

I guess that the theory goes that if you have more money, you will spend it.....

Of course, you will also be taxed at a higher rate......
What the hell are we fighting for? Ah, just surrender and it won't hurt at all. You just got time to say your prayers. Yeah, while you're waiting for the hammer to fall. (Brian May of Queen)

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Post by Diogenes » 03-26-2014 09:44 PM

voguy wrote: Just remember, KBOT, no politician was ever elected because they had an ability to help people, or the wisdom to solve problems.

They were elected on the same merits we elected our prom King and Queen in high school. The basis is if you "like them"

Which I might add shows the intelligence of the average Canadian and United States voter.

BTW, on minimum wage, I've never seen any evidence that raising a wage in this manor significantly improves the business, quality of goods, or the overall well-being of the employees. However, our local McDonald's franchise (28 stores) is looking at cutting people, reducing FT employees, automating more (processing food), and closing inside services. So tell me again how just tossing money at minimum wage is good?


Throwing money at the minimum wage to lift people up is about as effective as throwing more money in to the public school system, hoping it will get better.:roll eyes:

Don’t even get me started on the intelligence of the average voter.
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Post by SquidInk » 03-26-2014 10:24 PM

voguy wrote: However, our local McDonald's franchise (28 stores) is looking at cutting people, reducing FT employees, automating more (processing food), and closing inside services. So tell me again how just tossing money at minimum wage is good?
showthread.php?postid=702605#post702605

See bullet point number two:
Use deep capital reserves to automate as much as possible to avoid paying the wages they promoted, pay the high minimum to a workforce that is a fraction of the size it once was. This results in an overall reduction of overhead
It's "good" for the entities buying the legislation, or they would buy different legislation.
For if it profit, none dare call it Treason.

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Post by SquidInk » 03-27-2014 05:03 PM

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/you ... r-a-robot/
President Obama’s proposal to increase the federal minimum wage from .25 to .10 per hour could make it worthwhile for employers to adopt emerging technologies to do the work of their low-wage workers.
So... take your best guess at which "private sector" interest group is lobbying for higher minimum wage. Hint: it's the cold, calculating, profit-above-all-else, "person" you might least expect. Believe it or not, "Obama" couldn't care less. He is paid to promote the legislation that returns the best scenario to certain "persons". Minimum wage rises no matter which team has the ball [1], because The League wants it that way.
Based on a 2013 paper by Carl Benedikt Frey and Michael A. Osborne of Oxford, occupations in the U.S. that pay at or near the minimum wage — that’s about one of every six workers in the U.S. — are much more susceptible to “computerization,” or as defined by the authors, “job automation by means of computer-controlled equipment.” The researchers considered a time frame of 20 years, and they measured whether such jobs could be computerized, not whether these jobs will be computerized. The latter involves assumptions about economic feasibility and social acceptance that go beyond mere technology.

The minimum-wage occupations that Frey and Osborne think are most vulnerable include, not surprisingly, telemarketers, sales clerks and cashiers. But also included are occupations that employ a large share of the low-wage workforce, such as waiters and waitresses, food-preparation workers and cooks. If the computerization of these low-wage jobs becomes feasible, and if employers find it economical to invest in such labor-saving technology, there will be huge implications for the U.S. labor force.
1. http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/chart.htm
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Post by SquidInk » 03-27-2014 05:24 PM

Related: http://singularityhub.com/2013/01/22/ro ... -per-hour/
With a conveyor belt-type system the burgers are freshly ground, shaped and grilled to the customer’s liking. And only when the burger’s finished cooking does Alpha slice the tomatoes and pickles and place them on the burger as fresh as can be. Finally, the machine wraps the burger up for serving.

And while you fret over how many people you invited to the barbecue, Alpha churns out a painless 360 hamburgers per hour.
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Post by Riddick » 03-28-2014 12:08 AM

So what do you see as the end-game to all this automation/mechanization/computerization, Squid?

Specifically I mean, what's to become of the surplus human population? Being that idle hands are the devil's workshop, I can't imagine TPTB not having something in mind to keep the masses in line...

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Post by kbot » 03-28-2014 06:33 AM

As was shown in the old Twilight Zone episode To Serve Man - "It's a cookbook!!!!"
What the hell are we fighting for? Ah, just surrender and it won't hurt at all. You just got time to say your prayers. Yeah, while you're waiting for the hammer to fall. (Brian May of Queen)

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Post by Riddick » 03-28-2014 09:07 AM

Upper crust ruling class cannibals callously consuming mass quantities of lower class layabouts!? Imagine that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O1rHYWH8MY&t=3m24s

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Post by SquidInk » 04-04-2014 02:07 AM

Riddick wrote: So what do you see as the end-game to all this automation/mechanization/computerization, Squid?

Specifically I mean, what's to become of the surplus human population? Being that idle hands are the devil's workshop, I can't imagine TPTB not having something in mind to keep the masses in line...
Guess I missed this, Riddick -- apologies.

The end game of all the automation? I firmly believe in a coming "singularity" scenario. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity ) Don't know exactly how it will all play out. Some trans-humanist nightmare, no doubt.

As for the surplus human populations? I really have no idea. But it has to work in the same old way, really. Specifically, something like this:
  • A handful of global economic "prime movers" will "own" all of the automation IP (intellectual property, i.e. patents on algorithms, methods, key hardware components, data troves, etc.)
  • The motivation to own these things is, as always, ability to profit on a massive scale
  • With the traditional role of "worker" relegated to the dustbins of history, the former (now incomeless) "workers" will need a new way to procure cash, and pay for automated services and robot produced goods. This might be a kind of "basic income" strategy ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income ). The "success" of an individual will need to be de-coupled from that persons ability to earn money, because very few people will be in a position to earn much at all. The "prime movers" will ensure that some sort of fee schedule, or tax, administered by the state (at public expense) is collected and from that revenue the "basic income" will be leveraged. The fees/taxes will never cover the "basic income", thereby ensuring inflation (which is a profit vector for a certain group of people - I can explain that, if you wish). This will all result in the "prime movers", who are after all in control of what legislation is passed, being in a perfect position to direct all economic activity to their own benefit.
  • Any unsanctioned economic activity taking place in meat space, or in cyberspace will be dealt with extremely harshly.
  • In the longer term, populations will be drastically reduced, until something along the lines of the inscriptions on the "Georgia Guide Stones" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones ) is achieved ( + profit ), and the "Power Elite" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_Elite )have moved off planet to various moons within our system -- the ultimate "gated communities". Much of this is happening now. Today.
Last edited by SquidInk on 04-04-2014 02:19 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Raggedyann » 04-04-2014 03:59 AM

Ironic how the very fear of primeval communism may be driving us directly towards a new, improved and streamlined version. But as long as there are those hard working wealthy folks at the top to be worshiped, that's all that counts.
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Post by kbot » 04-04-2014 10:48 AM

SquidInk wrote: Guess I missed this, Riddick -- apologies.

The end game of all the automation? I firmly believe in a coming "singularity" scenario. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity ) Don't know exactly how it will all play out. Some trans-humanist nightmare, no doubt.

As for the surplus human populations? I really have no idea. But it has to work in the same old way, really. Specifically, something like this:
  • A handful of global economic "prime movers" will "own" all of the automation IP (intellectual property, i.e. patents on algorithms, methods, key hardware components, data troves, etc.)
  • The motivation to own these things is, as always, ability to profit on a massive scale
  • With the traditional role of "worker" relegated to the dustbins of history, the former (now incomeless) "workers" will need a new way to procure cash, and pay for automated services and robot produced goods. This might be a kind of "basic income" strategy ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income ). The "success" of an individual will need to be de-coupled from that persons ability to earn money, because very few people will be in a position to earn much at all. The "prime movers" will ensure that some sort of fee schedule, or tax, administered by the state (at public expense) is collected and from that revenue the "basic income" will be leveraged. The fees/taxes will never cover the "basic income", thereby ensuring inflation (which is a profit vector for a certain group of people - I can explain that, if you wish). This will all result in the "prime movers", who are after all in control of what legislation is passed, being in a perfect position to direct all economic activity to their own benefit.
  • Any unsanctioned economic activity taking place in meat space, or in cyberspace will be dealt with extremely harshly.
  • In the longer term, populations will be drastically reduced, until something along the lines of the inscriptions on the "Georgia Guide Stones" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones ) is achieved ( + profit ), and the "Power Elite" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_Elite )have moved off planet to various moons within our system -- the ultimate "gated communities". Much of this is happening now. Today.



"Meat space"?????????. Man, I AM tired.......... I have no clue what you're talking about.......:lolchimp:
What the hell are we fighting for? Ah, just surrender and it won't hurt at all. You just got time to say your prayers. Yeah, while you're waiting for the hammer to fall. (Brian May of Queen)

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Post by Riddick » 04-04-2014 03:34 PM

Thanks for the reply Squid. Your scenario certainly is plausible as well as scary.

Still, I'm wondering just how well the new normal will go over with the great unwashed unemployed masses? Will most just accept their plight? If for nothing but to break up the unbearable boredom brought on by the unending idleness might not at least some act in a fashion to return some meaning to their lives, even if they know 'fighting against the machine' is all too obviously futile?

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