Intentionally tanking the economy

Moderator: Super Moderators

Cherry Kelly
Pirate
Posts: 12851
Joined: 07-29-2000 02:00 AM
Contact:

Post by Cherry Kelly » 03-24-2014 02:06 PM

kbot - oh yes, costs have increased, but you know what? As stated - gov't doesn't count gas and food costs when it figures COLA... Of course congress critters don't pay for gas and food like we do. To them - gee those don't exist.

Then of course we can all see how Obama has blocked offshore drilling, pipelines (gee point to the broken ones that are leaking oil all over). It does make me wonder if sabotage is not going on to some of those 'leaks' -- just to make people on his side? ya ok - conspiracy theory, but - cut inspectors and oh gee gotten more leaks.

===
Digging through some of my father's old papers gives quite a view on how costs have risen over the years. He kept meticulous notes even writing out bill payments, groceries, and as he worked in a lumber yard (was a mgr) costs of nails, screws and lumber plus tools. His more meticulous records go back to just after WWII with some notes even older.
===
I look back to the late 60s and early 70s and some of my own notes. Then to the 80s and 90s and even a few grocery payments from current years.

I do blame a LOT of price hikes on gas (and diesel) prices especially since those hikes are 83% higher since O took office.

User avatar
kbot
Pirate
Posts: 7004
Joined: 03-12-2008 05:44 AM

Post by kbot » 03-24-2014 02:15 PM

You have to love the government's methods with accounting.

Now, all those old records you're looking over - those records are linked to charges generated when our money was actually backed by something other than people's good feelings.

Now....... Putin wants to Ukrainian food and the stock market plunges - and along with it consumer confidence.

Oh, and in today's news - Putin's eyeing Estonia - another breakaway Soviet republic. He's been having the Russian army and air force engage in "practice drills" just like they were doing off the border with Ukraine.

Just another coincidental round of hostilities I guess. Kinda makes Obama's open mike episode concerning his post-election flexibility with Putin just a little more interesting........
What the hell are we fighting for? Ah, just surrender and it won't hurt at all. You just got time to say your prayers. Yeah, while you're waiting for the hammer to fall. (Brian May of Queen)

User avatar
voguy
Pirate
Posts: 4175
Joined: 06-01-2011 05:47 PM
Location: Moving Target (soon SA)

Post by voguy » 03-24-2014 04:07 PM

Historically, the market drove the minimum wage, at least until the age of entitlements kicked in. Now there doesn't seem to be any incentive for leaving minimum wage as there are programs to supplement.

I will give you the fact there are no jobs, which is why you have people with MBAs working at Burger King. But I harken back to what my congressman said, quoting, "it's good for our economy to export jobs and import goods". I don't know if he believes it, he's wanking dumb, or if he mis-spoke. But here is the smoking gun.

Running the numbers on my community, (you folks will have to do your own research on your areas), we have had 61.5% of our industry leave town. 68% of the homes are rentals, as opposed to 18% in 1984. 47% of the children in this community leave the community searching for for. The other 53% stay, and only 8% find work, usually low pay and minimum-wage.

The ratio of equity to debt has shrunk from 48% to only 5%, meaning you now receive less, (and the government wants still more), than you had thirty years ago.

The trend I see here, (and I expect is the same in other communities), is we're losing more everyday. I'll leave you all to figure out how it got so convoluted in just 30 years.

VO may be leaving the building sooner than later, inn or not.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
kbot
Pirate
Posts: 7004
Joined: 03-12-2008 05:44 AM

Post by kbot » 03-24-2014 04:24 PM

I'm beginning to wonder if we'll see an updated version of people roaming the country in search of work as in the dust bowl days when people across the southern Midwest areas such as Oklahoma headed west to California in search of work.

I think that much of what you cited is fairly common, or getting so, across the country. And, there is no work, not the kind that pays very well.....
What the hell are we fighting for? Ah, just surrender and it won't hurt at all. You just got time to say your prayers. Yeah, while you're waiting for the hammer to fall. (Brian May of Queen)

User avatar
voguy
Pirate
Posts: 4175
Joined: 06-01-2011 05:47 PM
Location: Moving Target (soon SA)

Post by voguy » 03-24-2014 04:32 PM

It's already starting. A lady I know here, who is an anesthesiologist, is leaving because of what the medical center is doing to employees. So are 19 other employees in various departments. 9% of my son's senior class is looking elsewhere, and I think two of them are heading to the oil fields in North Dakota. The move is starting for those who have nothing else.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
kbot
Pirate
Posts: 7004
Joined: 03-12-2008 05:44 AM

Post by kbot » 03-24-2014 04:54 PM

In my area, my hometown has seen an exodus for decades. Mills have closed down, very little job opportunity. Colleges pump out students with absolutely no opportunity of landing a job. A former student dropped by Friday looking for work. He's been working per diem jobs at four different places. We're losing doctors because of the mandated Obamacare metrics - the docs are fed-up wit hearing that they only have 15 minutes to screen, evaluate, diagnose and treat a patient. We're losing a general surgeon, and OB and an internal medicine doc. We've already lost four other internal med docs, four radiologists and are about to lose another radiologist when his contract expires in July. And, this is only a few months in........ On the news tonight, a Sylvania light manufacturing plant just shuttered its door in Central Falls, north of Providence. We're just gushing jobs and the government wants to expand "free trade".
What the hell are we fighting for? Ah, just surrender and it won't hurt at all. You just got time to say your prayers. Yeah, while you're waiting for the hammer to fall. (Brian May of Queen)

User avatar
Doka
Pirate
Posts: 5490
Joined: 09-02-2009 08:15 PM

Post by Doka » 03-24-2014 06:13 PM

Here in Oregon the minimum wage is $9.95 per hour. What has happened here is Mom and Pop places are going under like crazy and that is what the minimum wage does it hurts small businesses, it is not going to touch corporations at this point, but it will, once McDs and other fast food places and etc, do not show a profit, they will be pulled out of the small towns. So you have a wonderful minimum wage that kills the business, no jobs for anyone. I am always amazed how free others are, with other peoples money. Also take note the minute min wage is raised, you are going to pay more for everything. So what's the point? It is not lack of compassion I suffer from, it is seeing the "hand writing" on the wall.

Voguy said:
The trend I see here, (and I expect is the same in other communities), is we're losing more everyday. I'll leave you all to figure out how it got so convoluted in just 30 years.


That says it in a nut shell. :(
Karma Rules

User avatar
SquidInk
________________
Posts: 5862
Joined: 03-15-2007 03:48 PM

Post by SquidInk » 03-24-2014 06:34 PM

If skyrocketing minimum wages are responsible for the mass die off of small "mom & pop" business, then you can *absolutely* bet that there are "big business" lobbyists behind every single instance of this kind of legislation.

It's the same tactic that saw, in the 1980's, big oil/lumber/etc. vigorously promoting increased environmental regulation. Compliance becomes extremely expensive, ensuring the demise of modestly capitalized competitors and upstarts.

Trust me, we made a massive error in judgement when we fetishized big, unacountable, corporate style business.
For if it profit, none dare call it Treason.

User avatar
SquidInk
________________
Posts: 5862
Joined: 03-15-2007 03:48 PM

Post by SquidInk » 03-24-2014 06:43 PM

The same interests are behind the "basic income" concepts being floated around the developed world lately ( http://simulacrum.cc/2013/07/10/three-t ... ic-income/ ).

Here is the process our corporate overlords are engaged in:
  • Bribe politicians ( in other words, lobby) for prohibitively high minimum wages at the federal level, and in every state in order to kill competition
  • Use deep capital reserves to automate as much as possible to avoid paying the wages they promoted, pay the high minimum to a workforce that is a fraction of the size it once was. This results in an overall reduction of overhead
  • Bribe politicians for creation and implementation of "basic income" (paid from taxes) to make sure displaced workers have spending money to keep up high level of consumption
This is a no-brainer. In this scenario, the government at all levels beyond the local level is simply a tool to redirect cash flow toward the economic "prime movers" - the largest, most influential corporations. The laws we see being enacted, by any "party" are simply the laws that were lobbied for most effectively by the influencers from the "private sector". Politicians simply play ball for the team with the most goodies on the table.
Last edited by SquidInk on 03-24-2014 07:07 PM, edited 1 time in total.
For if it profit, none dare call it Treason.

User avatar
Doka
Pirate
Posts: 5490
Joined: 09-02-2009 08:15 PM

Post by Doka » 03-24-2014 07:00 PM

Squid, I agree with you and raise you one. No jobs, No wages. We are in the tank, the government will take care of ya. Well what are we going to do with all the "Free Time"? I'm sure I am not alone when I say the majority of folks feel like they have been turned out in the desert, for god knows how many years, but we are all still here, and nothing bad has happened to me today. Yesterday that is a different story.

There is a pattern here. Tanking economy, the Constitution is pretty much gone, our standing with the rest of the world is in the toilet. This is as close to a "Dictatorship" as I want to get. So now that we are working on being a "3rd World" country, the Socialist Country of America. It is a void, I keep wondering what we will fill it with? Sit around and smoke dope and eat "Cheetos" or create a new society?
This is not the 1st time this has happened to countries, just not us.
Any thoughts? :)
Karma Rules

User avatar
Raggedyann
Pirate
Posts: 4894
Joined: 08-22-2006 04:50 PM

Post by Raggedyann » 03-24-2014 07:36 PM

kbot wrote: At the same time, people who go into a minimum wage job, stay there for years with no advancement in skills, cannot honestly expect a signifcant rise in pay if the job remains the same, and there is no appreciable skill sets added.

I did the same job for 18 yrs and received raises for reasons other than enhancement of skill set. Job performance, experience, and COST OF LIVING.
“For evil to flourish, it only requires good men to do nothing.” Simon Wiesenthal

User avatar
Riddick
Pirate
Posts: 12364
Joined: 11-01-2002 03:00 AM
Location: SE WI
Contact:

Post by Riddick » 03-24-2014 10:58 PM

Doka wrote: It is a void, I keep wondering what we will fill it with? Sit around and smoke dope and eat "Cheetos" or create a new society?
This is not the 1st time this has happened to countries, just not us.
Any thoughts? :)
Mmm... Cheetos. (Drool)

User avatar
kbot
Pirate
Posts: 7004
Joined: 03-12-2008 05:44 AM

Post by kbot » 03-25-2014 05:48 AM

Raggedyann wrote: I did the same job for 18 yrs and received raises for reasons other than enhancement of skill set. Job performance, experience, and COST OF LIVING.


I was speaking to the corporate line - thinkking of the McDonald/ Dunkin Donut types out there where there are very few types of jobs within the organization. You've got your cooks, cash register staff and the guys who clean-up the parking lots. Other than longevity, the only otehr issue is, as you noted, cost of living issues. And many large employers say "This is the job. This is the pay...... For every single job, there are literally thousands of applicants. Not saying it is right - just saying that's the reality.
What the hell are we fighting for? Ah, just surrender and it won't hurt at all. You just got time to say your prayers. Yeah, while you're waiting for the hammer to fall. (Brian May of Queen)

Cherry Kelly
Pirate
Posts: 12851
Joined: 07-29-2000 02:00 AM
Contact:

Post by Cherry Kelly » 03-25-2014 09:37 AM

Many states have different minimum wages than the one the feds set. Some are quarter, half dollar more per hour more and others even higher. YET the unemployment rates seem to be high and costs - taxes, food, etc. still keep going up.

Small businesses are hit the hardest across the nation with the ACA/ObamaCare situation. (as I have stated several times having been a small business owner for 20+years and seeing fewer and fewer members of the sba here - closed doors, sell outs, etc. What are people going to do?

Then we have the senior citizens whose SS puts them in the below poverty level and when they take out monies from retirement savings or investments - get taxed more. They see higher and higher $$ taken from their SS, taxes going up, foods, gas - everything going up, but a gov't who says - oh your COLA hasn't gone up that much. What are they to do - many are selling off the homes they have owned and lived in for decades.

I see job openings come up, but people who can't get work, some are just not qualified, some can't pass drug tests - its getting worse all the time. Older people having to take whatever they can just to survive.

Should we just give up?

User avatar
kbot
Pirate
Posts: 7004
Joined: 03-12-2008 05:44 AM

Post by kbot » 03-25-2014 10:17 AM

I hear ya CK. I think that government is failing us across most spectrums - federal, state, local.

Here where I live THE latest, greatest savior being pushed forward by the mayor is a casino.

Really????? That's the plan?

In order to bring this plan to fruition - a mall (granted, run-dwn and losing tenants), a supermarket (again, shuttered), a number of adjacent businesses - Burger King, Target, a Ford dealership, a dollar store will be closed and their land taken frmo them,.

Oh, and a brand-new school that taxpayer paid for wil be torn down as well because you can't have a casino abutting or even near a school. What kind of message does THAT send to the kids?? "Well, sure, we want you to get an education......... but not here. Here, you're in the way of progress....."

So, they'll be moved to a different school a mile or so away (not that big of a deal). But this school is on wetlands (who OK'd THAT plan, huh?), needs fixing-up, etc....

And so, what's coming in? Low-paying service jobs (wait staff, bartenders, cleaning staff) - all part time. And, of course, all the little extras that come with a casino. Just what we need......
What the hell are we fighting for? Ah, just surrender and it won't hurt at all. You just got time to say your prayers. Yeah, while you're waiting for the hammer to fall. (Brian May of Queen)

Post Reply

Return to “Politics and Government 2014 - Present”