It's in the Bill. (Obamacare)

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It's in the Bill. (Obamacare)

Post by voguy » 09-26-2013 04:42 PM

LINK

"We're from the government, etcetera, etcetera . . ."

This time the left can't say, "That's not in the bill!"

It's in the bill. Health and Human Services is making grants to states and agencies who are willing to perform "evidence-based home visits" connected to ObamaCare. What is the purpose of these visits? The grant guidelines don't exactly say, but they do spell out in detail who might receive them:
a) Eligible families who reside in communities in need of such services, as identified in the statewide needs assessment required under subsection (b)(1)(A).

b) Low-income eligible families.

c) Eligible families who are pregnant women who have not attained age 21.

d) Eligible families that have a history of child abuse or neglect or have had interactions with child welfare services.

e) Eligible families that have a history of substance abuse or need substance abuse treatment.

f) Eligible families that have users of tobacco products in the home.

g) Eligible families that are or have children with low student achievement.

h) Eligible families with children with developmental delays or disabilities.

i) Eligible families who, or that include individuals who, are serving or formerly served in the Armed Forces, including such families that have members of the Armed Forces who have had multiple deployments outside of the United States.


By "eligible families" they presumably mean eligible for premium subsidies, and that covers a whole lot of people. As for the categories offered here, it seems just about everyone would fit into at least one of them, yes?

Why do you need to get a visit from someone connected to ObamaCare because of your child's grades? Tobacco use? Not wise, but not against the law, so why do they need to come and see you about it? Interactions with child welfare services? A serious matter, but what exactly is the reason the federal government wants you to get a visit in connection with ObamaCare?

You realize what this is, right? Once the government (or "society" as liberals are fond of saying these days) is responsible for subsidizing your health care, they've got an inherent interest in your lifestyle. They've got a financial stake. If you were just paying the bills yourself, it would affect no one but you. But now that we've got a system of third-party payers mandated and subsidized by the government, it's no longer just your business if you smoke or, I guess, if your kid gets poor grades.

You will get a visit!

Many of us warned of this sort of thing during the original debates. It's bad enough that an insurance company gets to question you about this stuff, but when someone backed by the force of law can knock on your door and demand to know why you smoke . . . now do you see why Ted Cruz talked all those hours?

UPDATE: Some on the left are responding to this by a) claiming the visits are "voluntary"; and b) passing around a Snopes link that claims the story is false. The response to both A and B is the same. The Snopes piece emphasizes that the home visits are not "forced," and that is true, which technically makes it "voluntary" in the sense that you don't have to let them in. But that is misleading and beside the point.

It is not "voluntary" in the sense that you call up the government and say, "Hey, I can't quit smoking, is there someone the government can send over?" They reach out to you and seek to arrange a visit. You don't have to agree, but once the government has flagged your home as an issue worthy of a home visit, what happens after you refuse the visit? These are the people who are subsidizing your insurance, and they've just told you they need to speak with you. Yeah, sure, that's "voluntary."

It's a great example of how politicians use words to make things sound very different from what they really are.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson

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Post by Dude111 » 09-27-2013 12:20 AM

Yes its all about invading privacy EVEN MORE!!!!

Dont let these idiots in!!!!

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Post by kbot » 09-27-2013 09:07 AM

The GOP "invasion" of our personal lives will pale by these standards. That the Left is supportive of this shows just how much Kool Aid they've drunk.

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Post by Cherry Kelly » 09-27-2013 09:52 AM

..want more? Families with children who are "special needs" - seems they are cutting those --
They are also cutting what individuals can claim when they have high medical expenses (say major accident)
They are also adding a lot of hidden taxes.
Also adding higher deductibles that families have to pay up front...

Most of the people are totally unaware of these things and are NOT being told about them by ObamaCare consultants. (WHY? well those consultants don't know about them either!)

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Post by Diogenes » 09-27-2013 10:15 AM

VO wait this can't be true - are you telling me the benevolent and all knowing government is worse than the evil insurance companies, Koch Bros, Halliburton, Mittt Romney and all of his money????????????

Remember this?

Last edited by Diogenes on 09-27-2013 02:11 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by kbot » 09-27-2013 10:43 AM

And now we know why Pelosi didn't want it read before passage. Makes perfect sense.

The other day, on one of the talking head shows, Obamacare was the topic of discussion and Sen Klobuchar of Minnesota was one of the guests. Anoher guest noted how Minnesota was going to be adversely impacted by the medical devices tax and she didn't even bat an eyelash. The manufacturers of these devices will either pass along the tax to the patient, or move out of the country to manufacture them.

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Post by Fan » 09-27-2013 02:30 PM

Unsurprising.
The heartbreaking necessity of lying about reality and the heartbreaking impossibility of lying about it.

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

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Post by voguy » 09-27-2013 04:00 PM

Cherry Kelly wrote: ..want more? Families with children who are "special needs" - seems they are cutting those --


What concerns me the most is the state coming in to homes with special needs children to take them on the premise that they can help them more than their parents.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson

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Post by voguy » 09-27-2013 04:03 PM

Diogenes wrote: VO wait this can't be true - are you telling me the benevolent and all knowing government is worse than the evil insurance companies, Koch Bros, Halliburton, Mittt Romney and all of his money?


Pretty much so. An employee at work, who goes to the same doctor's group as I, has the flu. He was told today to come back next Wednesday. One doctor has quit, leaving only 4 in the office now. The problem is all the paperwork and computer data entry is taking them off being a doctor, and in their offices writing reports. Yep, Obamacare will fix this. NOT!
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson

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Post by Cherry Kelly » 09-27-2013 11:53 PM

voguy -- yup on them taking children OUT of the home...

oh ya - rumor is - home schooling will also ahh -- nono ... huh? what does that have to do with MEDICAL care?? (OH ya foods)

OH BTW -- Abortion funds have been increased by huge amounts ... also seems that if any maladies noticed in pre-natal exams- falls into this new category....

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Post by Riddick » 09-28-2013 09:03 AM

voguy wrote: An employee at work, who goes to the same doctor's group as I, has the flu. He was told today to come back next Wednesday. One doctor has quit, leaving only 4 in the office now. The problem is all the paperwork and computer data entry is taking them off being a doctor, and in their offices writing reports. Yep, Obamacare will fix this. NOT!
I guess not. Then again, it's maybe just a matter of how one looks at things, and what's meant by "quality" health care -

So you have the flu. Come back in a week or so? Could be by then it's run its course, or nearly so. Well, hardly a need for an office visit any more eh...! But, as may easily happen, let's say waits for any sort of treatments at facilities get longer - So you need an operation? Come back in 6 months or so. Could be by then you're dead. See? No need for an operation any more!

The savings will be huge. Exams and procedures will be kept to an absolute minimum, if not absolute zero. All the more people are kept from abusing their benefits, all the fewer unnecessary burdens on the system.

Universal health coverage? A bargain at twice the price. Such a deal! Everybody and everything, from A to Z, you're fully insured. And the best thing is, issues with insurance claim fulfillments will plummet, because there'll be far fewer filed in the first place...

You wanna talk about quality! Really, what's wrong with long waits? It's the ultimate in "preventative" medicine. Prevent people from actually making use of their healthcare benefits, from thereon everything takes care of itself. That is, provided people don't persist in pursuing treatment -

Really, why spoil the peace of mind that comes from knowing you're completely covered by making a nuisance of yourself? You've got the insurance, isn't that enough? Be a sport, just don't try to use it and everything'll be fine, just fine.

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Post by voguy » 09-28-2013 09:19 AM

So you have the flu. Come back in a week or so? Could be by then it's run its course, or nearly so. Well, hardly a need for an office visit any more eh...! But, as may easily happen, let's say waits for any sort of treatments at facilities get longer - So you need an operation? Come back in 6 months or so. Could be by then you're dead. See? No need for an operation any more!


You must be one of those on the death boards, Riddick. As someone who almost died from the flu in 1997, the thought of anyone telling a human being to wait and let it run its course is sort of ... well, inhumane. If those are the new rules than I would suggest we agree that it's used across the board, so when a bureaucrat has a stroke or heart attack we let them lie and whisper in their ear, "let it run its course."
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson

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Post by Riddick » 09-28-2013 10:15 AM

voguy wrote: You must be one of those on the death boards, Riddick. As someone who almost died from the flu in 1997, the thought of anyone telling a human being to wait and let it run its course is sort of ... well, inhumane. If those are the new rules than I would suggest we agree that it's used across the board, so when a bureaucrat has a stroke or heart attack we let them lie and whisper in their ear, "let it run its course."
Well, at the same time that's certainly not what they'd want to hear, we all know bureaucrats aren't apt to agree to have to live by the same rules as everybody else, and so long as the government deciders decide that's the way it is, that's the way it's going to be - then on top of that, add the fact what the "real world" IS for them is so much different than the average Joe, it's not all so surprising they'd have a different view of "humane" treatment when it comes to the public at large.

Insofar anything and everything looks good "on paper" to the political class, that's all that matters to them - and thus with Obamacare ostensibly being all about providing "universal access" by way of a insurance policy mandate, that's all fine and good - OTOH, what good is insurance for all, IF indeed ready access to care is subsequently severely stifled as an "unintended consequence" OF the law?

Now, it well may be they hadn't carefully considered things like this when they cobbled the bill together and rammed it through... yet, couldn't it just as easily be many WERE all too aware of what-all negatives could or would come of it, and simply didn't give two focks?

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Post by kbot » 09-28-2013 12:30 PM

voguy wrote: Pretty much so. An employee at work, who goes to the same doctor's group as I, has the flu. He was told today to come back next Wednesday. One doctor has quit, leaving only 4 in the office now. The problem is all the paperwork and computer data entry is taking them off being a doctor, and in their offices writing reports. Yep, Obamacare will fix this. NOT!


I work with an internal medicine doctor who came here from Portugal years ago because he was sick or the paperwork rules in socialized medicine. He's upset because, while he has a very active outpatient and inpatient practice with himself, another physician and two nurse practitioners, he feels that he will have to leave in the not too distant future because he sees what's already destroyed healthcare in Europe.

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Post by kbot » 09-28-2013 12:34 PM

Riddick wrote: I guess not. Then again, it's maybe just a matter of how one looks at things, and what's meant by "quality" health care -

So you have the flu. Come back in a week or so? Could be by then it's run its course, or nearly so. Well, hardly a need for an office visit any more eh...! But, as may easily happen, let's say waits for any sort of treatments at facilities get longer - So you need an operation? Come back in 6 months or so. Could be by then you're dead. See? No need for an operation any more!

The savings will be huge. Exams and procedures will be kept to an absolute minimum, if not absolute zero. All the more people are kept from abusing their benefits, all the fewer unnecessary burdens on the system.

Universal health coverage? A bargain at twice the price. Such a deal! Everybody and everything, from A to Z, you're fully insured. And the best thing is, issues with insurance claim fulfillments will plummet, because there'll be far fewer filed in the first place...

You wanna talk about quality! Really, what's wrong with long waits? It's the ultimate in "preventative" medicine. Prevent people from actually making use of their healthcare benefits, from thereon everything takes care of itself. That is, provided people don't persist in pursuing treatment -

Really, why spoil the peace of mind that comes from knowing you're completely covered by making a nuisance of yourself? You've got the insurance, isn't that enough? Be a sport, just don't try to use it and everything'll be fine, just fine.


Yes it is wonderful. My son was called in to a meeting at work this morning an the employees were all told that "Congratulations!!!! Now that Obamacare goes into effect soon, you're al losing your health insurance benefits. Here's how to file paperwork with the state!!!!'. Needless to say, the meeting didn't go over very well. - I'm still carrying my son on my plan - but most of the people that work there don't live with their parents or their parents don't cover them.

Also, we're still seeing a LOT of people in the ER, and that's because the primary care physicians aren't accepting many new patients

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