Bills Would Require Michiganders To Work For Welfare, Pass Drug Test
September 18, 2013 3:24 PM - CBS Detroit
LANSING (WWJ) - Could this mean the end of welfare as we know it?
A bill has passed in the Michigan Senate that would require those receiving public assistance to do some “volunteer” work. Another bill, which passed the House Commerce Committee, requires drug testing, revoking benefits for welfare recipients who refuse the test or who test positive.
“What [the legislation] does, it says, in order for your to receive your cash assistance, your welfare check, you must provide some kind of community service to the community,” said the volunteer work bill’s sponsor, State Senator Joe Hune, who represents Livingston and Shiawasse counties in Mid-Michigan.
Hune says he was inspired by a constituent who began to volunteer while on welfare — and that community service evolved into full employment.
“The whole intention is to make certain folks have some skin in the game, and I don’t feel that there’s any problem with making folks go out and do some kind of community service in order to receive their cash assistance,” Hune said.
State Sen. Vincent Gregory, D-Southfield, thinks the bills take aim at people who are already suffering their lowest moments.
“These people, they already need as much money as they can get, they wouldn’t be asking for it if they didn’t need it,” he said. “It seems that this philosophy that everyone must have skin in the game, you know, it’s like you may have some financial issues, you may be down and out … That kind of philosophy to me — if you’re healthy bodied, I can see it — but for a lot of people, I just think that it is very intrusive.”
How, specifically, would the programs work? Hune said he purposely designed the bill to be ambiguous.
“We … kind of left it up to the Department of Human Services to implement it, kind of how they see fit,” said Hune. “Sometimes when the legislature puts something in action and puts too many details in place, there can be problems with the system.”
The legislation would not affect those on food stamps.
The volunteer bill now heads to the House of Representatives’ Families, Children and Seniors Committee, while the drug testing bill heads to the full House for a vote.
“A lot of people are embarrassed to even be there (asking for benefits), and they have this put on them — It’s this feeling that ‘This is what the public wants.’ But the public doesn’t want to see people beaten down,” Gregory said.
VO Notes: Their on line poll shows 97.24% of all readers would like testing and workfare.
Michiganders To Work For Welfare
Moderator: Super Moderators
Michiganders To Work For Welfare
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson
Oh NO!! Say it ain't so VO! What's the world coming to? How soon before there's NOTHING folks can depend on anymore? -
Next thing you know after an all-out collective drunken spree (or brain fart!) elected officials will vote so that they gotta perform actual real work in return for all the money they steal on-the-job.
Next thing you know after an all-out collective drunken spree (or brain fart!) elected officials will vote so that they gotta perform actual real work in return for all the money they steal on-the-job.
...Even worse for them'd be, if alla these prideful nogoodniks-by-nature were further forced 'gainst their will to both lower themselves to the disgustingly dreadful level of the electorate-at-large by regularly performin' genuine accept-no-imitations work AND THEN descend a whole 'nother nicknotch-and-a-half by also bein' on-call cattle-prod compelled to produce pee-pee in a cup on a routine basis as well -Riddick wrote: Oh NO!! Say it ain't so VO! What's the world coming to? How soon before there's NOTHING folks can depend on anymore? -
Next thing you know after an all-out collective drunken spree (or brain fart!) elected officials will vote so that they gotta perform actual real work in return for all the money they steal on-the-job.
Most-all American politicians couldn't pass a drug test if their lives AND the lives of their constituents depended on it - doubt it do ya? Donchaknow it's common knowledge at any given time there's near next to NO chance'a anybody or their brother ever findin' a "completely clean" one eh?!?
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Cherry Kelly
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Nothing wrong with workfare for welfare - with very few exceptions. There are those physically disabled who could not get out to do work, but that is a minority group of individuals.
AND yes - drug tests. (Except those with doctor's prescription drugs of course.)
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There used to be a thing about welfare recipients - oh shoveling sidewalks, picking up trash in parks, along roads, cutting weeds from vacant homes, those able to work on construction - to rehab some empty homes. Then a few problems came up - with city workers who were supposed to be doing those jobs - yet jobs went undone. SO there are things like that. Sweeping floors at the food kitchens, or helping serve up foods, or at the food banks - so many things that could be called volunteer work and needed.
While we are at it... EBT should only be allowed at qualified grocery stores, no more ATM cash. AND only allowed foods. NO more T bone steaks when hard working people can barely afford cheaper hamburger. (heard that one on a radio from a gal who said person in front of her had all the most expensive meats and foods and ya EBT card, while both her and her husband worked and could barely afford basic foods for their three preteen-age children. (OH yes she said the woman had on expensive clothes from a high priced clothing store, wore a lot of jewelry as well.)
AND yes - drug tests. (Except those with doctor's prescription drugs of course.)
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There used to be a thing about welfare recipients - oh shoveling sidewalks, picking up trash in parks, along roads, cutting weeds from vacant homes, those able to work on construction - to rehab some empty homes. Then a few problems came up - with city workers who were supposed to be doing those jobs - yet jobs went undone. SO there are things like that. Sweeping floors at the food kitchens, or helping serve up foods, or at the food banks - so many things that could be called volunteer work and needed.
While we are at it... EBT should only be allowed at qualified grocery stores, no more ATM cash. AND only allowed foods. NO more T bone steaks when hard working people can barely afford cheaper hamburger. (heard that one on a radio from a gal who said person in front of her had all the most expensive meats and foods and ya EBT card, while both her and her husband worked and could barely afford basic foods for their three preteen-age children. (OH yes she said the woman had on expensive clothes from a high priced clothing store, wore a lot of jewelry as well.)
This thread got me thinking. Here are some real world numbers, from a year in my life. I worked that year (three years ago, I think) 40hrs/wk (the prime 40) in an industry which I have 15 years' experience, great references, and a lot of knowledge. The expenses do not account for any contributions toward 'retirement', any 'entertainment', any required travel, or a number of other necessities. There is no savings. This was a year where I worked full time just to feed and clothe myself.
The full time job was outsourced in 2011, and my hours would have been cut to 10/wk. I left.
Three additional years previous to this, I started another business, and have now (in 2013) been part of two more start-ups, because finding steady work is not happening. I would not start businesses if I didn't have to because it sucks.
The whole point is, except for my refusal to allow others to pay (one red cent) for my existence, it would be much more efficient to be on welfare because due to decisions I made (unknowingly to some extent) when I was 15 regarding career paths and such, I will likely never get ahead in a full time job.
Note: I estimated the insurance and deductible at 117/3500 based on this: http://tinyurl.com/nbt6xns . I did not buy insurance that year because the last 'plan' I had charged me $400/mo and $5000 deductible. This would have put me in the red for the year.
The full time job was outsourced in 2011, and my hours would have been cut to 10/wk. I left.
Three additional years previous to this, I started another business, and have now (in 2013) been part of two more start-ups, because finding steady work is not happening. I would not start businesses if I didn't have to because it sucks.
The whole point is, except for my refusal to allow others to pay (one red cent) for my existence, it would be much more efficient to be on welfare because due to decisions I made (unknowingly to some extent) when I was 15 regarding career paths and such, I will likely never get ahead in a full time job.
Note: I estimated the insurance and deductible at 117/3500 based on this: http://tinyurl.com/nbt6xns . I did not buy insurance that year because the last 'plan' I had charged me $400/mo and $5000 deductible. This would have put me in the red for the year.
Last edited by SquidInk on 09-21-2013 12:25 PM, edited 1 time in total.
For if it profit, none dare call it Treason.
Related: http://www.technologyreview.com/view/51 ... erization/
Step 1: keep having loads of kids
Step 2: maniacally automate/outsource all the jobs to meet year over year growth models
Step 3: complain loudly when kids become 'idle' good-for-nothings who want your 'stuff'
Oxford researchers say that 45 percent of America’s occupations will be automated within the next 20 years.
Step 1: keep having loads of kids
Step 2: maniacally automate/outsource all the jobs to meet year over year growth models
Step 3: complain loudly when kids become 'idle' good-for-nothings who want your 'stuff'
For if it profit, none dare call it Treason.
There is no doubt that the odds are being stacked against the working people more and more. The graph I saw in the newspaper the other day indicated the primary reason as our costs have skyrocketed in the areas of taxation and insurance. When something as simple as a tax going up .25 cents, that moves everyone's costs up, and as it's passed along typically the ratio from equity to debt shrinks.
This is why someone of my age made less money 25 years ago, but had more money after expenses. And the projections look rather bleak in the coming years as cash dries up in federal circles, and the government will need to lean on their cash-cows for more "contributions".
Those of us with jobs, the best thing we can do is start lining up work on the side, and make plans to transition to limit our exposure to taxation. However, I see insurance costs rising as their profits will also be attacked from the top, and the only way to stay solvent is to get more money for premiums.
This is why someone of my age made less money 25 years ago, but had more money after expenses. And the projections look rather bleak in the coming years as cash dries up in federal circles, and the government will need to lean on their cash-cows for more "contributions".
Those of us with jobs, the best thing we can do is start lining up work on the side, and make plans to transition to limit our exposure to taxation. However, I see insurance costs rising as their profits will also be attacked from the top, and the only way to stay solvent is to get more money for premiums.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson
SquidInk wrote: Not trying to be argumentative, just presenting a scenario where a hard working person has become utterly disillusioned.
I think this is a fair statement. Many people who I know who have worked hard all their lives and are now seeing it all taken away from them figure, "f__ it", and figure out some other way to survive.
Perhaps the most devastating of them all was when my friend Ron closed his machine shop. In doing so he released five other guys who worked for him. And so the snowball starts rolling down the hill.
I can't blame Ron. After years of being harassed by local government, and bleed to death by taxes, it wasn't in his family's interest to stay working. They lost a third of their savings.
Actually, I'm thinking of doing the same thing.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson
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Cherry Kelly
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Been saying for a long time - taxes, hidden tax increases have literally cut into every working person's ability to continue - just with basics costs of living.
Some time back this state put a cap on property taxes for senior citizens who owned homes. Meaning - the property taxes could not be raised, would not have excess added while the senior continues to reside in their homes. It included other aspects connected to their property - as long as they lived and resided there. That disappeared.
Average life expectancy is around 80 years of age (yes a bit longer for women who on average also get far far less in SS). Now we hear of all the fraud taking monies out of SS and nothing being done to collect it back and put it back in SS. Medicare now has the YOU MUST pay part B or lose your SS and that too keeps going up - but SS itself doesn't. The 1965 Medicare payments - pre-paid medical FOR retirement - is also a fraud since seniors must STILL pay more.
Families are now residing together simply to survive and yet that too is not enough. Food costs have skyrocketed. Basic needs have skyrocketed. Utilities as well and they keep wanting to add more costs.
AND then along comes ObamaCare - and a large majority of this nation's people have NO idea about all the hidden taxes contained within it.
Many senior citizens - married couples - getting SS - are in poverty income status. Yet if they own a home cannot get help - even food stamps because - oh they own a home, their car or cars are paid off, but their income level is below poverty level. Something definitely wrong here.
Some time back this state put a cap on property taxes for senior citizens who owned homes. Meaning - the property taxes could not be raised, would not have excess added while the senior continues to reside in their homes. It included other aspects connected to their property - as long as they lived and resided there. That disappeared.
Average life expectancy is around 80 years of age (yes a bit longer for women who on average also get far far less in SS). Now we hear of all the fraud taking monies out of SS and nothing being done to collect it back and put it back in SS. Medicare now has the YOU MUST pay part B or lose your SS and that too keeps going up - but SS itself doesn't. The 1965 Medicare payments - pre-paid medical FOR retirement - is also a fraud since seniors must STILL pay more.
Families are now residing together simply to survive and yet that too is not enough. Food costs have skyrocketed. Basic needs have skyrocketed. Utilities as well and they keep wanting to add more costs.
AND then along comes ObamaCare - and a large majority of this nation's people have NO idea about all the hidden taxes contained within it.
Many senior citizens - married couples - getting SS - are in poverty income status. Yet if they own a home cannot get help - even food stamps because - oh they own a home, their car or cars are paid off, but their income level is below poverty level. Something definitely wrong here.
Good post, Cherry. I have a lot of friends in retirement communities who all are scared of the same thing. Nothing is worse than a mandated purchase of services which by Constitution is illegal to ask citizens to do.
It's not like they have a lot of money, and now our kind and beneficial government is leveraging what they have away from them. It's criminal.
It's not like they have a lot of money, and now our kind and beneficial government is leveraging what they have away from them. It's criminal.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson
Sure taxes are a burden. However, there are so many forms of economic rent placed on a person that a strong argument can be made to simply walk away.
We forget sometimes that it is not a crime to find yourself unmotivated to start businesses, or develop specialized & arcane skills to insane levels in order to leverage some kind of supply/demand dividend.
In the 1970s my father bought property, raised a family, indulged in hobbies/experiments, and took vacations while working (and job-hopping) ±40hrs as a car salesman. That is utterly impossible now in the same town. In fact you'd be laughed at. His work was important to him, but it wasn't even close to the most important aspect of his life.
Now, it's not even enough to be a steady employee. Such a thing screams, 'lack of motivation' to certain people. It's not enough to own a business - if it's not bringing huge revenue, then it's not a 'real' business (as I have personally been informed). In fact, my brother-in-law recently had to take out the equivalent of a large) mortgage to buy better equipment in order to 'differentiate' himself. Just working 80hrs/wk with paid off equipment wasn't good enough. You gotta consistently take on bigger debt and play the credit game, or the system will never reward you.
Forget it. I won't take on debt. Will not. I won't accept the branding (credit score) the system wants to etch on my hide. 'Neither a borrower nor a lender be', right? That leaves me out of most of the 'benefits' offered in this world. So again, why am I working/trying?
My latest thing (in process) is a 501c3 that will solve a real, visible problem (prevention of the euthanization of small dogs like pommeranians, maltese, yorkies, etc). I absolutely do not want to form a corporation or file for 501c3 designation, as I have no desire for tax 'exempt' status. I simply want to provide low cost interstate transport for pets who are about to be killed due to lack of space/funds. However, if I need to accept donations, or apply for private sector grants, I have no choice. The process is maddening.
I'm just about done with all of it. Tired of being looked at like I'm a loser by a bunch of sold-out, brain dead, automatons. It would be far simpler, and better for my health to forget it all and live like the unibomber (without the bombing, of course).
At the root of most all of our problems lies a brutal set of perverse incentives - across the entire spectrum of our activities.
We forget sometimes that it is not a crime to find yourself unmotivated to start businesses, or develop specialized & arcane skills to insane levels in order to leverage some kind of supply/demand dividend.
In the 1970s my father bought property, raised a family, indulged in hobbies/experiments, and took vacations while working (and job-hopping) ±40hrs as a car salesman. That is utterly impossible now in the same town. In fact you'd be laughed at. His work was important to him, but it wasn't even close to the most important aspect of his life.
Now, it's not even enough to be a steady employee. Such a thing screams, 'lack of motivation' to certain people. It's not enough to own a business - if it's not bringing huge revenue, then it's not a 'real' business (as I have personally been informed). In fact, my brother-in-law recently had to take out the equivalent of a large) mortgage to buy better equipment in order to 'differentiate' himself. Just working 80hrs/wk with paid off equipment wasn't good enough. You gotta consistently take on bigger debt and play the credit game, or the system will never reward you.
Forget it. I won't take on debt. Will not. I won't accept the branding (credit score) the system wants to etch on my hide. 'Neither a borrower nor a lender be', right? That leaves me out of most of the 'benefits' offered in this world. So again, why am I working/trying?
My latest thing (in process) is a 501c3 that will solve a real, visible problem (prevention of the euthanization of small dogs like pommeranians, maltese, yorkies, etc). I absolutely do not want to form a corporation or file for 501c3 designation, as I have no desire for tax 'exempt' status. I simply want to provide low cost interstate transport for pets who are about to be killed due to lack of space/funds. However, if I need to accept donations, or apply for private sector grants, I have no choice. The process is maddening.
I'm just about done with all of it. Tired of being looked at like I'm a loser by a bunch of sold-out, brain dead, automatons. It would be far simpler, and better for my health to forget it all and live like the unibomber (without the bombing, of course).
At the root of most all of our problems lies a brutal set of perverse incentives - across the entire spectrum of our activities.
Last edited by SquidInk on 09-22-2013 11:17 AM, edited 1 time in total.
For if it profit, none dare call it Treason.