The Anger in America

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bobbo
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one can make the sign of the cross, or drive the wooden stak

Post by bobbo » 11-15-2011 04:23 PM

Cherry--all good reforms except taxing the donations. Other than raise revenue for the Feds, I can't think of any transactional justification for it==no goods or services have been delivered or performed. Its the mere positioning of money prior to those generally taxable events. In theory, such taxation is meant to discourage such events and I don't see why non-bribery contributions should be discouraged. If used as a method to limit large corporate bribes, it is overly board in application?

Drive the stake===make contributions illegal.

Construct a different way for political speech to enter the marketplace of ideas. Yes, government funding.

Small dithering changes work when the issues are small. When the entire system is corrupt from start to finish as we now have with our Government, changes such as you suggest merely deflect the changes that are needed from coming. Use your energy to identify what changes will have a significant impact. We want to kill this beast---No?

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Post by Diogenes » 11-15-2011 04:35 PM

Dale O Sea wrote: Congrats on Baby's arrival. :) I worry for your grandkid and others' too. I have three boys, all grown, ranging 21-30 - but none willing to bring a kid into this mess, much to their mom's understanding dismay, I might add.


Some conspiracy theorists say that he's not even in prison, but has paid well to have a look-alike serve his term for him while he's lounging on a beach sipping Dom. Prison is big business now, so this doesn't sound all that far-fetched to me.


Thank you for the congrats - I understand (altho not from the grandparents perspective) of questioning the future and implications for children - seems harsh but I get it.

I do think Bernie is in the tank - had not heard that conspiracy theory.
A man's character is his fate

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Post by voguy » 11-15-2011 07:50 PM

Cherry Kelly wrote: I have long advocated term limits - House and Senate. I would also change # of yrs per. ALSO they would have to reside in the state (area of state) that they are elected from - for a certain number of years PRIOR to and following the end of their term of office. (Still not too decided on total number of years, but would be in the teens up to 20 and no more.)


Term limits are not really as much of a problem as profiting from being in office.

Several things must happen in order for the problem to be reversed. First, pay scales for Congress should be limited to the prosperity of a district. Take for example my county, which is at 9.7% unemployment. My Congressman should get a base pay of $100,000. From that take 9.7% off. Then deduct 23%, which is the loss of economic growth because business has left for Mexico and China. A Congressman should represent his district, and have an incentive to make it better.

Secondly, a member of Congress or Senate must live by the same rules of the average constituents. By this it means whatever the average is for healthcare, 401K matching, sick time, everything should be factored in. The idea that we have one substandard healthcare system and they are exempt points to the problem. They should be equal.

Third, no member of Congress or Senate may take any gift, whatsoever, from the public or a corporation, period.

Fourth, Congress has been rallying the FCC to build up the biggest and best wireless system in the world. If that is the case, I would suggest that the law be rewritten so all members have to live for 48 weeks in their district. Let's face it, GoToMeeting and other programs allow them to get together. And if they are all out of Washington, #1 we can keep a better eye on them, and #2 we can see who is coming and going and trying to influence their opinions.

Finally, I think the model of advertising has run its course. (Bet you didn't think you would hear a TV guy say this). I would argue that instead of TV commercials and ads, all candidates must campaign locally by townhall meetings with local newspaper, TV, radio reporters, and citizens, fielding the questions. In exchange for their license to be on the air, NPR and PBS in the geographic areas would have to make time, unedited, for the meetings and debates. We would vote on the answers that we get from the candidate rather than some slickly produced TV or radio spot.

These are on my Christmas wish list. I think the biggest problem we have is the profit from being in office.

One of my coworkers made this analogy. Congress legislates by ignoring the people and doing the will of big banking and corporations, and their contempt is much the same as how Penn State protected their football program when Jerry Sandusky was molesting kids. If you talk to any Congressman, face to face, you will be met with a complete denial they are in the pockets of business. But, as a test, try talking to your congressman. You, and I, can't.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson

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Post by bobbo » 11-15-2011 08:09 PM

"These are on my Christmas wish list. I think the biggest problem we have is the profit from being in office." /// Not even close. In effect and in theory--except perhaps by way of extenuated causation?

But the "biggest" problem is a set of interactive problems. Failing to balance the budget "represents" the biggest problem: failure to govern. Failure to regulate large swaths/areas of economic activity in the USA? Failure to plan long term for the good of the USA rather than short term for the benefit of singular individuals/groups? All the same thing and I would pay each congress creep a million dollars a year if they would govern wisely.

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Post by Cherry Kelly » 11-16-2011 01:13 PM

YES where are they getting all the 'excess' monies beyond their salaries? See how many go into office and by time they get out have several very large amounts of monies - way beyond what salaried (less cost of living) would be for an 'average US citizen' at those pay levels.

---
Let alone look at all their 'leave days' per yr, and other bennies.
---

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Just a matter of em PHA sis.

Post by bobbo » 11-16-2011 03:40 PM

Cherry--I'll say it again and leave you to your own preferences but why are you focusing on "what the congress creeps get" rather than the damage they are doing to the country?

Its orders of magnitude different in its impact.

What you are focusing on is valid and true but misses the elephant in the room.

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Post by Cherry Kelly » 11-17-2011 10:16 AM

bobbo -- I will 'talk' about what all the congress critters get - because it DOES tie in with the 'good' of this country. Every hundred, thousand, etc. dollars they get takes away $$ from the citizenry, whether its through taxes or by companies spending money on congress critters instead of putting that money to creating more jobs.

Some people call the monies "peanuts" when they look at the overall budget. BUT those "peanuts" add up when you look at all the 'above salary' monies the congress critters receive. How many people even going to work for some company get 170K starting salary, plus fully paid bennies? Not very many that I am aware of - let alone outside lobbyists monies, huge vacation days off, and extra pay for any committee they are in (even when they don't show up for meetings)?
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Rescind NAFTA - charge tariffs on every product that comes into the USA that used to be made by companies IN the USA.

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Re: Just a matter of em PHA sis.

Post by Dale O Sea » 11-17-2011 10:36 AM

bobbo wrote: Cherry--I'll say it again and leave you to your own preferences but why are you focusing on "what the congress creeps get" rather than the damage they are doing to the country?

Its orders of magnitude different in its impact.

What you are focusing on is valid and true but misses the elephant in the room.
Not Cherry but will offer my 2¢:

Using their power to make money thu insider trading is destructive to the entire system, costing much more than cash. We now expect our politicians to be dishonest and aren't surprised to see the scandals that once were fairly rare. What is the price of trust, the cost of losing it? I have little trust in our system of govt, courts, banks, most any institution of power - at what cost?

Revolution is the price for reform now, not elections, I fear. That's how bad it is. Lets hope it's not a bloody one..
[size=0]"Question everything, especially your media and their motives. -Me[/size]

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Re: Re: Just a matter of em PHA sis.

Post by Diogenes » 11-17-2011 11:26 AM

Dale O Sea wrote: Not Cherry but will offer my 2¢:

Using their power to make money thu insider trading is destructive to the entire system, costing much more than cash. We now expect our politicians to be dishonest and aren't surprised to see the scandals that once were fairly rare. What is the price of trust, the cost of losing it? I have little trust in our system of govt, courts, banks, most any institution of power - at what cost?

Revolution is the price for reform now, not elections, I fear. That's how bad it is. Lets hope it's not a bloody one..


Short and to the point - I agree in particular with the last paragraph.
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Did she say what?

Post by Dale O Sea » 11-17-2011 11:50 AM

I can do short..;)

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Forum Question

Post by bobbo » 11-17-2011 12:53 PM

I last posted here last night and this morning there are 3 responses after mine with 2 of them in the last 2 hours ((can't tell as that info is not appearing below as I compose this response--I assume it will return when I reboot or return to this mode the next time? Numbers gone too. Is that my browser acting up from time to time or the website's code?)) yet checking the "most recent posts" function shows nothing. Maybe that will clear up at the same time the numbers reappear while composing?

Yesterday the most recent posts was about 10 items long for me and then it went to 2. I don't know how that function is "supposed" to work. I like seeing just what it says: THE MOST RECENT POSTS whether I'm following those threads or not, whether I answered on those threads or not. Its a valuable tool TO DRAW PEOPLE INTO NEW DISCUSSIONS.

And to remind people with the memory of a clam where they were? A small thing, but what isn't?

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the pragmatic existential anti-theist

Post by bobbo » 11-17-2011 01:01 PM

As stated--we are all saying the same thing and I'm commenting on the presentation of em PHA sis. If the complaint is most importantly the impact on the StockMarket--that is what one says for emphasis and rank priority. You can say something else and work back to what is more important--but too many people will change the channel before you get there or misperceive what is more important.

Congress creeps skimming their insider trading will not destroy the stockmarket. The Stockmarket is nothing but a skimming operation. Destroy peoples faith in their leadership? Well, .......ok. But who has that to start with?

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Post by Cherry Kelly » 11-23-2011 01:37 PM

The problem is NOT in looking at the problem that exists - but how it got there and how stop it from continuing. THEN fix it.

The problem did not just happen overnight, but has doubled, tripled, quadrupled, or more (your choice) in less than 3 yrs time. We can all ask why and yell until we become hoarse and our questions fall on deaf ears.

One can name numerous factors, but the fingers end up pointing at an out of control federal government that keeps 'sticking its proverbial fingers' into every aspect of American lives. All the time while they reap in money that truly does not exist and creating higher and higher debt...to be paid by - not them, but you and I -- IE: We the People.

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Post by voguy » 11-23-2011 03:28 PM

I heard an interesting analogy about the problem you speak of, Cherry. The professor said that as much as you and I don't feel the fed is entitled to whatever it wants from us, they see us as their property, therefore we better produce for them.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson

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Post by Cherry Kelly » 11-25-2011 03:09 PM

voguy - ayup sad to say....

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