Kaztronic

[racehorse]

But Kaz – and, ironically, Ironsgold and to a lesser extent Biker – were three of the people I’ve alluded to in the past as being “relative newbies” who come in and pontificate about how the place should conduct itself. The difference with these three individuals, is that they stuck out what ever it was and became valued members of the Forum. But they would be three exceptions. You (not YOU, Kaz. You generic) don’t know the dynamic between Cherry Kelly, Corvid and Rombaldi. You weren’t here to see it evolve. You don’t realize that Racehorse and Linnea have been posting together for seven years, and the relationship that they have. You’re not aware of all the complexities involved in the Joe Quinn movement, and how long that’s been going on. You didn’t see the days when this place was assaulted on a weekly basis by a group of two or three lunatics would register and re-register under different nicks and start throwing bombs, and why the “in-crowd” takes immediate action when they see it coming again. Believe me, three years from now (and yes. We’re all still going to be here three years from now), when you see a “relative newbie” come in and say “the place is too biased; who runs this forum?” or “why does that Joolz person think she can speak for Corvid? (based on an actual true story)”, or “why are that Kaztronic-guy’s posts so long?” or even “but I thought Cherry Kelly and Cherry were the same person” (another true story), you will react the way you see people reacting now. Because you’ll be remembering the conversation – the community -- we had today, three years before. Something they weren’t privy too. You’ll feel what I feel. This is my family, and I don’t need late-to-the-party-folks disrespecting that.

. . .

Even if you need a break, don’t stray too far they buoy. And we’ll be here.

Excellent analysis, Live.

[Corvid]

Posted by Kaz:

"I consider HB3 a friend, both inside and outside of the forum - he and I email each other pretty regularly......."

You let the cat out of the bag.

Thank you for clearing up a little mystery. When hb3 made that UGLY post to me he said that "others" on this forum felt the same way as he.

NOW I know who the hell he was referring to. It was YOU!

Could you be that much of a sniveling weasel not to admit that to me several posts ago?

Never mind.... I know the answer.

[racehorse]

this is my home, my community, my internet family.

Perfectly said, Joolz.

I feel exactly the same way!

[Kaztronic]

Posted by Kaz:

"I consider HB3 a friend, both inside and outside of the forum - he and I email each other pretty regularly......."

You let the cat out of the bag.

Thank you for clearing up a little mystery. When hb3 made that UGLY post to me he said that "others" on this forum felt the same way as he.

NOW I know who the hell he was referring to. It was YOU!

Could you be that much of a sniveling weasel not to admit that to me several posts ago?

Never mind.... I know the answer.

Oh please, I don't even remember the particular insult we're referring to here. I have my faults, but admitting wrongs is not normally one of them. You're making pretty wild assumptions here about me, it's almost like an "ah ha!" moment gone wrong (I'm not sure whether to laugh or not) - much like the ridiculous suggestion that HB3 is some sort of paid operative sent here to disrupt a forum that very few people even seem to be reading anymore. This line of thought you are pursuing is both irrational and embarrassing.

Because I am a friend of HB3 does not mean that I feel the same as he does about issues, and people. In fact, we've had more than a few arguments about people that we disagree about. Our arguments on certain issues such as immigration have been epic in their scale.

[HB3]

Originally posted by Corvid
Posted by Kaz:

"I consider HB3 a friend, both inside and outside of the forum - he and I email each other pretty regularly......."

You let the cat out of the bag.

Thank you for clearing up a little mystery. When hb3 made that UGLY post to me he said that "others" on this forum felt the same way as he.

NOW I know who the hell he was referring to. It was YOU!

Could you be that much of a sniveling weasel not to admit that to me several posts ago?

Never mind.... I know the answer.

Dude...you're completely out of your mind.

[rumike]

It has been quite obvious to me for some time that HB3 and Kaz have been coordinating their attacks. They tried VERY hard to get me kicked off this forum many times by trying to trump up infractions against the policies. It was nicely planned out each time, but still pretty transparent when you're the target.

[HB3]

Rage and paranoia are really attractive. I wonder why no one's posting....

[Corvid]

Tweedle Dumb said:

"Oh please, I don't even remember the particular insult we're referring to here. I have my faults, but admitting wrongs is not normally one of them. You're making pretty wild assumptions here about me, it's almost like an "ah ha!" moment gone wrong (I'm not sure whether to laugh or not) - much like the ridiculous suggestion that HB3 is some sort of paid operative sent here to disrupt a forum that very few people even seem to be reading anymore. This line of thought you are pursuing is both irrational and embarrassing.

Because I am a friend of HB3 does not mean that I feel the same as he does about issues, and people. In fact, we've had more than a few arguments about people that we disagree about. Our arguments on certain issues such as immigration have been epic in their scale."


Tweedle Stupid said:

"Rage and paranoia are really attractive. I wonder why no one's posting...."


Tell you what.... why don't you both go somewhere else and write your little love letters. Or just go to hell and quit pestering the adults.

[rumike]

Here's the pattern I see.

1. A random topic is posted.

2. HB3 posts whatever the right-wing talking points are. Kaz does so as well, and tries to make it sound like he's carefully considering all sides, but ALWAYS sides with the GOP. Quinn is not a right-winger, but he dislikes Obama so much he falls for their crap (and every other insane conspiracy theory know to humankind)

3. The liberals question the outright lies or misinformation within, usually ask for the source, and call out whatever the
standard distraction tactic is.

4. Kaz starts yelling that we're on a personal attack and that we're calling him a liar.

5. We argue that point.

6. HB3 joins in with personal insults, often using obscene, sexual, homophobic, racist, or otherwise distasteful language.

7. We defend ourselves.

8. Kaz then claims we're violating board policies and otherwise being mean to him in an effort to get us (me for awhile) planked.

[Kaztronic]

Interesting theory Rumike - but false all the same.

I fight my own battles, and always have (revisionist history aside). As for trying to get you kicked off the forum, wrong again - but only a mod could confirm or deny that. I did think, and express directly to you (both politely in the beginning, and confrontationally towards the end) my irritation at and frustration with your arrogant, and consistently rude dismissal of virtually every opinion I offered on every topic as a "false equivalence" - stalking me from thread to thread with that garbage. It happened so many times that I could predict it after a while and used to joke about watching you follow my posts around the forum once they popped up. In the end, I also vaguely recall it becoming transparent enough that a mod did eventually get involved and tell you to quit it.

The merits of the topics I discussed were consistently dismissed out of hand, and ignored in favor of a constant argument that suggested that such opinions simply be ignored. The details used to support those arguments (and I always worked hard, and took my time sourcing my posts) became irrelevant to the dismissive replies - it's the kind of thing where you say after a while, "why bother doing all this work and posting these thoughts?".

[Linnea]

Don't know if there is much constructive value in all this. Maybe so. However, the level of 'personal attacks' is beginning to go off the charts.

Rein that in. Now. There are many ways to get a point across without these blatant personal attacks.

[SETIsLady]

Home from work now, wanted to respond to this thread all day but didn’t have the time to go into the detail that I wanted to. Just like when I make quick comments on some threads, it has nothing to do with lack of interest its lack of time. But anyhow, it’s evident from your first post Kaz and the last year that you have issues with me, and those that may agree with me or of like mind. I want to be very clear I am not going to go anywhere unless Linnea asks me to, even though you are trying like hell to make that happen. I consider many here my family, this includes people like Race, CK and Laura people that I don’t necessarily agree with all the time, but are very dear to my heart and they know that. We have been through many things together over the last 7 yrs.

Regarding Megman, I am not going to even get into because your post made it clear that you obviously saw me as the aggressor for stating my opinion strongly just have you have done many times here. I don’t agree with your opinion, and to be honest I am getting quite tired of being the scapegoat for your issues with the ship or anyone else’s. I have kept my mouth shut the last couple of times that this type of thread has been opened, but not anymore. I have seen you a couple of others on many occasions use the gang up mentality, in fact a couple of those people are gone specifically because of you. I have not spoken to you on the ship in about 6 months and HB the same up until recently , and that has been intentional, because you come and post like you have an audience off the ship, sorry I just don’t plan on playing the game. You have no problem saying whatever you feel like saying but if anyone does the same there is a “lack of diversity” .

While we are at it. I read your “Your Tube” page I want to address this statement:

this is my home, my community, my internet family.

This couldn’t have been said any better, the core group understands that we may fight , disagree, get pissed and maybe even leave for a bit, but we are family here. Perhaps you think you are somehow more important that others here, you’re not. The whole “holier than thou” routine is getting old and is in fact boring .

[SETIsLady]

Oh and Bell I always read your posts

[DeathValleyScotty]

Hey, Live

I am not answering for Kaztronic, Biker or Ironsgold.....

...however, I am concerned about the lack of participation on the forum in general. It seems to get worse by the day.

It would be good to hear some honest comments on this issue.

Have heard about some concerns as:

Too much of a focus on personal comments in posts

A perception of posting 'cliques' - as in personal comments backing up some posters and ignoring - or goring others

That the Fantastic Forum itself is biased toward the 'progressives' - as witnessed, perhaps in the closing of the accounts of some new registrants

A general nasty and confrontational tone in the 'Politics and Government' threads which discourages discussion

Or, confusion as to what is 'allowed', as far as posting and etc...

And so on...

This is sad, that the Fantastic Forum is in a decline. There are many good people - who are at least checking back in from time to time - but there is obviously a problem.

Any constructive thoughts? Anything that can be done?

TOPIC RESET - - TOPIC RESET - - TOPIC RESET

Here's my take on this topic. Yes, I've been around a while, but I'm interested in reading more than posting. Why is that?

This forum has the benefit of adversity. We all think outside the box. There have times where I've found breaking news here and not in the mainstream. Other times, this is the only place where I'll see discussion on a particular topic and as long as the conversation stays topic centered, it is enjoyable to read.

On this and several other boards out there, here's the way it usually works. Someone posts a topic or article of interest and perhaps their opinion of said piece. Others reply with their opinions and most assuredly at some point, someone is going to disagree with someone else's opinion. It's one thing to disagree but when someone throws out the first "You're and idiot" or "You don't know what you're talking about", then the slippery slope begins. So many threads (internet overall) get heated from personal attacks that no one wants to participate in that type thread. I don't enjoy throwing mudballs. Although this thread is flushing out some answers, it is also bordering on being classed as an attack thread. No, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. I'm just stating the way I see it.

As for this ship, one has to look back to the driving forces that built this ship in the first place. At one time, this was THE site that one could come to and speak Art Bell. Enjoy the show, talk about the show and in some cases relive the show. When Art retired, in a sense, so did this site. People fell away, but they would come back for updates. Collectively we took a stance on Art's replacement (I won't digress down that path) and pressed on. So, what was there left to discuss? The world around us that's what. News items, Art's guest appearances, occasional personal items and of course politics. Politics, like religion, are subjects that by their very nature provoke arguments when there's disagreement. No one is going to agree on everything.

So, what is the answer? It certianly isn't an administrative issue. First of all, the same rule applies here that I learned in grade school. If you don't have something nice to say, don't say it. If you feel the need to say it, then lay off the personal attacks. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't justify you calling me an idiot. We're all adults here and we should treat each other as such. Second of all, since Art retired, this ship has been adrift. Perhaps it's time to have threads devoted to those favorite guests that we all enjoyed. Sure, listening to an archived show from ten years ago may be entertaining, but what is that guest doing today? Are they still alive? I know some have already passed on. Lastly, as painful as it may be, if it is determined that keeping this ship afloat is too much, then pull her into drydock and retire her with honor. That's better than having her rot and sink to the bottom.

DVS

[Corvid]

Don't know if there is much constructive value in all this. Maybe so. However, the level of 'personal attacks' is beginning to go off the charts.

Rein that in. Now. There are many ways to get a point across without these blatant personal attacks.

Linnea,*


*message received. Email is a better venue. Will respond via email...