And Biker and Ironsgold.
What's happening? Nothing to say these days???
Kaztronic
Moderator: Super Moderators
Hey, Live
I am not answering for Kaztronic, Biker or Ironsgold.....
...however, I am concerned about the lack of participation on the forum in general. It seems to get worse by the day.
It would be good to hear some honest comments on this issue.
Have heard about some concerns as:
Too much of a focus on personal comments in posts
A perception of posting 'cliques' - as in personal comments backing up some posters and ignoring - or goring others
That the Fantastic Forum itself is biased toward the 'progressives' - as witnessed, perhaps in the closing of the accounts of some new registrants
A general nasty and confrontational tone in the 'Politics and Government' threads which discourages discussion
Or, confusion as to what is 'allowed', as far as posting and etc...
And so on...
This is sad, that the Fantastic Forum is in a decline. There are many good people - who are at least checking back in from time to time - but there is obviously a problem.
Any constructive thoughts? Anything that can be done?
I am not answering for Kaztronic, Biker or Ironsgold.....
...however, I am concerned about the lack of participation on the forum in general. It seems to get worse by the day.
It would be good to hear some honest comments on this issue.
Have heard about some concerns as:
Too much of a focus on personal comments in posts
A perception of posting 'cliques' - as in personal comments backing up some posters and ignoring - or goring others
That the Fantastic Forum itself is biased toward the 'progressives' - as witnessed, perhaps in the closing of the accounts of some new registrants
A general nasty and confrontational tone in the 'Politics and Government' threads which discourages discussion
Or, confusion as to what is 'allowed', as far as posting and etc...
And so on...
This is sad, that the Fantastic Forum is in a decline. There are many good people - who are at least checking back in from time to time - but there is obviously a problem.
Any constructive thoughts? Anything that can be done?
Linnea, we've all shared these concerns for...what's it been. Maybe two years now? But I don't, and never have, percieve the Ship as being mismanaged. The re-tread "Eagle" of last week was quick to get planked, but we all saw it coming and all knew how it would end. You did little more than nip it in the bud and save precious server space. The comments you've heard, I don't know what to say about them. I've made my stand clear more than once in more than one thread. Don't come in, post around for a month and then start litanizing everything that's wrong. Which usually correlates quite well with what you personally don't like. The Ship has been here for ten years. Most of the people I see complain don't last six months.
I also stand by my contention that it's not the Forum that has slowed down, it's the world. You'll notice that when something *happens* (Haiti, Art doing a show), the place lights up like a firefly. The problem, is what do you do about a slow world. We're doing a good job of hanging in there. And "hanging in there", in my experience, ultimately pays off.
My only suggestion is that we should all, even by way of obligation, step up our own level of participation. If you take five minutes to make one comment in one thread a day, you've helped. I've never known a Pirate who didn't want to give their opinion about something. So talk!
I also stand by my contention that it's not the Forum that has slowed down, it's the world. You'll notice that when something *happens* (Haiti, Art doing a show), the place lights up like a firefly. The problem, is what do you do about a slow world. We're doing a good job of hanging in there. And "hanging in there", in my experience, ultimately pays off.
My only suggestion is that we should all, even by way of obligation, step up our own level of participation. If you take five minutes to make one comment in one thread a day, you've helped. I've never known a Pirate who didn't want to give their opinion about something. So talk!
Did you ever stop to think, and then forget to start again?
Hi Live and Linnea,
To answer your question Live (I'm actually sorry to do this), but I do have things to say, that hasn't changed. In fact, I've been typing away doing my thing, talking about the topics that interest me, arguing, debating, agreeing, discussing, learning, fuming, smiling, laughing, crying, etc..... I'm just not doing that here at the Fantastic Forum these days.
I have to disagree with your assessment that activity here is down due to it being a "slow world" right now. The fact is, there are other forums out there with hundreds of members posting away all day and night about many of the same topics once discussed so passionately and honestly here. It has been exciting, surprising, joyful, and sad (all at the same time) to discover that there are several old Fantastic Forum members posting out there still, sometimes you can tell it's them by their writing & interests - other times they come right on out and say hello!
The reason the Fantastic Forum is slowing down, it's membership dwindling, is internal - not external.
Frankly, there isn't much of interest to read here anymore. There are relatively few spirited debates anymore, especially in the areas that predominantly drive the forum these days (politics and general current events).
Why is that?
Simple, there frankly exists a lack of diversity of opinion. This impacts the information shared, and obviously the discussions that take place. Thus the dominos begin to fall, and the problem builds to the point where there aren't even that many lurkers anymore.
It wasn't always that way, was it?
The natural follow-up question thus becomes, what happened to cause a lack of diversity of opinion here? Why are some members who have demonstrated an interest in alternative, or less than popular opinions in the past silent now, whereas they were outspoken in the past?
It's easy to fall in to the trap of citing those that remain as proof that such alternative opinions remain here - but I submit that such a focus is in error as it ignores the problem of those who have left, leaving this forum relatively silent these days.
I'll break this down in to two parts; 1. Why I personally stopped writing here, and 2. What I see that is different where I do still participate.
I stopped writing here because It's become very difficult to discuss the issues anymore. As time has gone on, I have watched as the issues have been shoved aside in favor of partisan politics & allegiances (Psychicwolfs posts serving as a major exception in my opinion - although they garner far less replies than say, Cherry Kelly for example - why is that?). At least half of the threads in P&G are simply hit pieces on Republicans, and often ugly at that. It so dominates the conversation here - and frankly, this place doesn't have the membership levels of DU to pull that kind of thing off.
You have to know going in to any conversation that if you are going to share an opinion, or information that does not reflect well on Democrats, President Obama, and/or the policies they put forth that you are generally going to have problems. If you were foolish enough to share an opinion with, or quote someone like Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, or Rush Limbaugh for instance on an issue you wished to discuss, then the topic would most likely instantly change from the issue - to the source or personality quoted. As time has gone on, this has effectively chipped away at so many sources of discussion and information - leaving the forum stuck with limited resources of information (since sourcing information is often deemed to be extremely important here). Whether you agree with the people I used as an example or not is less relevant than the interesting issue driven conversations that could take place in my opinion. You can be almost certain though that such conversations will get ugly, and if you share an opinion with these personalities, you can be certain that you will be dismissed and found guilty by association. It's a bullying tactic that has been in place for a while now, and has slowly eroded any two-sided political conversation. After a while you have to ask yourself, if you can't find the information or analysis you want on Huffington Post or Mother Jones, then why bother?
This behavior extends beyond sources of information though, it hits everywhere. You have a little group of people who treat this forum as their kingdom, who determine which opinions are valid and worthy of discussion. I think this was perfectly in evidence the other day when Megman was attacked, in group fashion because he had the nerve to discuss the U.S. Space Program when he was a Canadian. The question was asked, by someone who mind you has had zero problems sharing their opinions on what other countries ought to be doing, the question was asked "when did you last pay taxes in America?" or something like that. This was UGLY. It was designed to effectively dismiss his opinion as an "outsider". Anything he might have offered to the discussion was deemed frankly irrelevant - so he let her have it in response, rightly so in my opinion (and was far more tame than some of what is written towards people like CK by some of those that this group supports) - further, he accurately predicted the little group getting involved in making him look bad. When a mob comes after you Live, it's very annoying and makes it unlikely that a person will want to contribute in the future. Amazingly, in all of the anger at his calling this person out (who had pulled the same ugly stunt citing his Canadian citizenry as reason for him to basically "shut up" in the past on more than one occasion), lost in all of that was the attempt to invalidate the opinion of another long-time poster because their information was somehow unworthy - the overall issue was of secondary importance. So, what happened, a long-time member of the Forum is now gone - and no one bats so much as an eyelash.
It goes beyond that, I've watched over the last week as two separate members have been accused of being paid operatives of the right-wing..... again, an attempt to dismiss, discredit, silence, distract, etc..... The issues take second place. These people are not welcome here by this little group, is it any surprise that they stop posting? To that end, guess what? I know of another long-time member who is quitting this place for much the same reasons many of us have cited.
In my case, I was dismissed as a closet Republican, although I am an Independent, and my arguments were dismissed constantly as "false equivalencies", and after a while simply ignored. This group was ugly to deal with, because the personal (which always exists in heated discussions and these types of forums) totally overwhelmed the underlying issues offered up for discussion.
So Live, why bother posting?
Now, what about these other places where I find myself currently participating?
Well, they also get ugly and personal occasionally. They get intense, they are filled with arguments, sometimes insults. Feelings are hurt, etc......
What's the difference in these places? Well, I've not seen attempts to simply discredit other members as having opinions that are frankly irrelevant, unworthy, not applicable due to whatever reasons - and most importantly I've not seen any concerted efforts by those who often agree with each other to go after specific people and shut them up by relentlessly following them and attacking them. There are no cliques, there isn't nearly as much piling on, and their is no dismissal of opinions - the opinions are discussed, relevant information is brought in to the discussion and is not dismissed outright. There are no shrines to the President and his party, there are not multiple threads dedicated each day to the evil nature of either party. Heck, people concede that they can be wrong from time to time, concede they are not sure, concede that we may not know how things will work out until down the road, change their minds, etc.....
These places have spirited conversation, devils advocate conversations, and go out of their way to welcome and embrace alternative viewpoints and encourage argument / debate along those lines, whereas the Fantastic Forum seems controlled by a select few who determine what is worthy of the forums time.
You know what's funny and sad, these same people who fought so hard to pile on everyone with an alternative viewpoint have nothing to say anymore other than "hello", "I agree", "right on", "good one", "I love you", and "thanks for sharing that article". They've no one left to talk to. It all comes down to a lack of diversity in opinion here, and the root causes of that. Don't believe me, well take a look at whose posts garner the most responses these days - Cherry Kelly's. Simply put, these people have run out of people to talk to - and that is why the forum is dying, if not already dead.
I'll leave you with this Live, I can offer no solutions to resolve this and bring the forum back to life. I happen to think it comes back to the dominos I mentioned earlier - at this point it is possible that too many have fallen. Moderation is not the answer, being polite is probably not necessary either. You certainly can't go after this group, because if they left, well - that would solve nothing and likely make it even worse because there would be no one left. So it in effect comes down to a lack of information here at the forum, and a lack of two-way dialogue on the issues. Until that is embraced again, and until it starts again the dominos will continue to fall. People say, "if it's not broken, don't fix it".... well, guys, it's broken - so, if you want it to work properly again, assuming the parts are salvageable, well, then you need to fix it.
I'll tell you this, I miss posting here, and I miss the people who have left the forum. I miss what they brought to the forum, the fascinating ideas, opinions, and information. As time has gone on, they have all generally mentioned the same thing, that their opinion no longer counted, and frankly did not feel welcomed here anymore. This was once an educational, spirited place - now it is a nearly empty room still reliving an election that took place over a year ago. I loved the Fantastic Forum (and still do), I supported it - with donations when I was able, but mostly with my writing and passion. The Fantastic Forum was a place tha I valued very much. And when, like others who have left, when I no longer felt welcome I asked myself if there was any place else out there that had what this place once did. I went out and found it, I come back and write this because I hope that one day, before this charmed space disappears, that it can re-capture the magic it once had.
For you Live, I know that this place is very much about community - if you wish to preserve this community, you need to analyze why people are leaving it behind for other venues. Remember this, it is folly to think they no longer care about the issues, are no longer passionate, and most importantly - no longer write - we do, just not here right now.
You know what else is sad, in the past when I might have written about something like this, I would have cared very much about the replies it might garner, and if necessary, I would have worked hard to defend myself - right now, I'll probably end up saying: why bother?
To answer your question Live (I'm actually sorry to do this), but I do have things to say, that hasn't changed. In fact, I've been typing away doing my thing, talking about the topics that interest me, arguing, debating, agreeing, discussing, learning, fuming, smiling, laughing, crying, etc..... I'm just not doing that here at the Fantastic Forum these days.
I have to disagree with your assessment that activity here is down due to it being a "slow world" right now. The fact is, there are other forums out there with hundreds of members posting away all day and night about many of the same topics once discussed so passionately and honestly here. It has been exciting, surprising, joyful, and sad (all at the same time) to discover that there are several old Fantastic Forum members posting out there still, sometimes you can tell it's them by their writing & interests - other times they come right on out and say hello!
The reason the Fantastic Forum is slowing down, it's membership dwindling, is internal - not external.
Frankly, there isn't much of interest to read here anymore. There are relatively few spirited debates anymore, especially in the areas that predominantly drive the forum these days (politics and general current events).
Why is that?
Simple, there frankly exists a lack of diversity of opinion. This impacts the information shared, and obviously the discussions that take place. Thus the dominos begin to fall, and the problem builds to the point where there aren't even that many lurkers anymore.
It wasn't always that way, was it?
The natural follow-up question thus becomes, what happened to cause a lack of diversity of opinion here? Why are some members who have demonstrated an interest in alternative, or less than popular opinions in the past silent now, whereas they were outspoken in the past?
It's easy to fall in to the trap of citing those that remain as proof that such alternative opinions remain here - but I submit that such a focus is in error as it ignores the problem of those who have left, leaving this forum relatively silent these days.
I'll break this down in to two parts; 1. Why I personally stopped writing here, and 2. What I see that is different where I do still participate.
I stopped writing here because It's become very difficult to discuss the issues anymore. As time has gone on, I have watched as the issues have been shoved aside in favor of partisan politics & allegiances (Psychicwolfs posts serving as a major exception in my opinion - although they garner far less replies than say, Cherry Kelly for example - why is that?). At least half of the threads in P&G are simply hit pieces on Republicans, and often ugly at that. It so dominates the conversation here - and frankly, this place doesn't have the membership levels of DU to pull that kind of thing off.
You have to know going in to any conversation that if you are going to share an opinion, or information that does not reflect well on Democrats, President Obama, and/or the policies they put forth that you are generally going to have problems. If you were foolish enough to share an opinion with, or quote someone like Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, or Rush Limbaugh for instance on an issue you wished to discuss, then the topic would most likely instantly change from the issue - to the source or personality quoted. As time has gone on, this has effectively chipped away at so many sources of discussion and information - leaving the forum stuck with limited resources of information (since sourcing information is often deemed to be extremely important here). Whether you agree with the people I used as an example or not is less relevant than the interesting issue driven conversations that could take place in my opinion. You can be almost certain though that such conversations will get ugly, and if you share an opinion with these personalities, you can be certain that you will be dismissed and found guilty by association. It's a bullying tactic that has been in place for a while now, and has slowly eroded any two-sided political conversation. After a while you have to ask yourself, if you can't find the information or analysis you want on Huffington Post or Mother Jones, then why bother?
This behavior extends beyond sources of information though, it hits everywhere. You have a little group of people who treat this forum as their kingdom, who determine which opinions are valid and worthy of discussion. I think this was perfectly in evidence the other day when Megman was attacked, in group fashion because he had the nerve to discuss the U.S. Space Program when he was a Canadian. The question was asked, by someone who mind you has had zero problems sharing their opinions on what other countries ought to be doing, the question was asked "when did you last pay taxes in America?" or something like that. This was UGLY. It was designed to effectively dismiss his opinion as an "outsider". Anything he might have offered to the discussion was deemed frankly irrelevant - so he let her have it in response, rightly so in my opinion (and was far more tame than some of what is written towards people like CK by some of those that this group supports) - further, he accurately predicted the little group getting involved in making him look bad. When a mob comes after you Live, it's very annoying and makes it unlikely that a person will want to contribute in the future. Amazingly, in all of the anger at his calling this person out (who had pulled the same ugly stunt citing his Canadian citizenry as reason for him to basically "shut up" in the past on more than one occasion), lost in all of that was the attempt to invalidate the opinion of another long-time poster because their information was somehow unworthy - the overall issue was of secondary importance. So, what happened, a long-time member of the Forum is now gone - and no one bats so much as an eyelash.
It goes beyond that, I've watched over the last week as two separate members have been accused of being paid operatives of the right-wing..... again, an attempt to dismiss, discredit, silence, distract, etc..... The issues take second place. These people are not welcome here by this little group, is it any surprise that they stop posting? To that end, guess what? I know of another long-time member who is quitting this place for much the same reasons many of us have cited.
In my case, I was dismissed as a closet Republican, although I am an Independent, and my arguments were dismissed constantly as "false equivalencies", and after a while simply ignored. This group was ugly to deal with, because the personal (which always exists in heated discussions and these types of forums) totally overwhelmed the underlying issues offered up for discussion.
So Live, why bother posting?
Now, what about these other places where I find myself currently participating?
Well, they also get ugly and personal occasionally. They get intense, they are filled with arguments, sometimes insults. Feelings are hurt, etc......
What's the difference in these places? Well, I've not seen attempts to simply discredit other members as having opinions that are frankly irrelevant, unworthy, not applicable due to whatever reasons - and most importantly I've not seen any concerted efforts by those who often agree with each other to go after specific people and shut them up by relentlessly following them and attacking them. There are no cliques, there isn't nearly as much piling on, and their is no dismissal of opinions - the opinions are discussed, relevant information is brought in to the discussion and is not dismissed outright. There are no shrines to the President and his party, there are not multiple threads dedicated each day to the evil nature of either party. Heck, people concede that they can be wrong from time to time, concede they are not sure, concede that we may not know how things will work out until down the road, change their minds, etc.....
These places have spirited conversation, devils advocate conversations, and go out of their way to welcome and embrace alternative viewpoints and encourage argument / debate along those lines, whereas the Fantastic Forum seems controlled by a select few who determine what is worthy of the forums time.
You know what's funny and sad, these same people who fought so hard to pile on everyone with an alternative viewpoint have nothing to say anymore other than "hello", "I agree", "right on", "good one", "I love you", and "thanks for sharing that article". They've no one left to talk to. It all comes down to a lack of diversity in opinion here, and the root causes of that. Don't believe me, well take a look at whose posts garner the most responses these days - Cherry Kelly's. Simply put, these people have run out of people to talk to - and that is why the forum is dying, if not already dead.
I'll leave you with this Live, I can offer no solutions to resolve this and bring the forum back to life. I happen to think it comes back to the dominos I mentioned earlier - at this point it is possible that too many have fallen. Moderation is not the answer, being polite is probably not necessary either. You certainly can't go after this group, because if they left, well - that would solve nothing and likely make it even worse because there would be no one left. So it in effect comes down to a lack of information here at the forum, and a lack of two-way dialogue on the issues. Until that is embraced again, and until it starts again the dominos will continue to fall. People say, "if it's not broken, don't fix it".... well, guys, it's broken - so, if you want it to work properly again, assuming the parts are salvageable, well, then you need to fix it.
I'll tell you this, I miss posting here, and I miss the people who have left the forum. I miss what they brought to the forum, the fascinating ideas, opinions, and information. As time has gone on, they have all generally mentioned the same thing, that their opinion no longer counted, and frankly did not feel welcomed here anymore. This was once an educational, spirited place - now it is a nearly empty room still reliving an election that took place over a year ago. I loved the Fantastic Forum (and still do), I supported it - with donations when I was able, but mostly with my writing and passion. The Fantastic Forum was a place tha I valued very much. And when, like others who have left, when I no longer felt welcome I asked myself if there was any place else out there that had what this place once did. I went out and found it, I come back and write this because I hope that one day, before this charmed space disappears, that it can re-capture the magic it once had.
For you Live, I know that this place is very much about community - if you wish to preserve this community, you need to analyze why people are leaving it behind for other venues. Remember this, it is folly to think they no longer care about the issues, are no longer passionate, and most importantly - no longer write - we do, just not here right now.
You know what else is sad, in the past when I might have written about something like this, I would have cared very much about the replies it might garner, and if necessary, I would have worked hard to defend myself - right now, I'll probably end up saying: why bother?
Last edited by Kaztronic on 02-04-2010 04:44 AM, edited 1 time in total.
"You'll get used to my babbling, all the others have." - Anna Madrigal from "Tales Of The City" by Armistead MaupinKaz - it seems apparent that you primarily have personal issues with, what you characterize as 'a little group of people who treat this forum as their kingdom, who determine which opinions are valid and worthy of discussion'. From this you have rationalized a scenario which includes the entire Fantastic Forum. This kind of situation usually results in the leaving of the forum. I would posit this has been the trajectory of many former members. That's life on the internet.
I am also sure many of us are aware there are hundreds/thousands of other forums churning out posts and comments 24/7 out there. And, yes - some few of those posters have passed through the Fantastic Forum at some point. Many of the posters here also post at other forums. This is not something new. Over a period of 10+ years it is hardly remarkable.
We have an exceptional group of passionate, intelligent and outspoken posters here. Most of them very feisty indeed! And, yes - it does get rough from time to time. Sometimes things do get too personal and there are flare ups, as Live365 noted. Especially in Politics and Government topics.
As far as membership 'dwindling', I believe most of the core group is still here, again as Live365 noted. There has been a marked lull in participation, and some of that may be for the reasons you have stated. However, I agree again with Live365 - that most of this is due to a cycle of 'in breathing', or general weariness out there with events in the world. I have noticed many other blogs and forums experiencing a similar 'slow down' effect at this time.
There is a strong diversity of opinion here - and not all of that diversity is expressed in partisan politics.
And, yah - the forum is boring when there are not more posts and posting. The remedy for that is more posting.
Some of us continue to post things, hopefully, of interest - so at least there is something interesting to read and think about. It's true most of this same information is out there on the internet, but it is interesting to snag some of that and post it here. Hopefully that will generate some comment and further interest.
And lastly, 'Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh' are paid 'personalities'.
They are in the profession and out there to rake in the bucks - with of course, their progressive counterparts as well.
And actually one more thing. I am disappointed you came with this message which is so generally critical of Fantastic Forum. Speaking for me only - I do not believe it was warranted.
I am also sure many of us are aware there are hundreds/thousands of other forums churning out posts and comments 24/7 out there. And, yes - some few of those posters have passed through the Fantastic Forum at some point. Many of the posters here also post at other forums. This is not something new. Over a period of 10+ years it is hardly remarkable.
We have an exceptional group of passionate, intelligent and outspoken posters here. Most of them very feisty indeed! And, yes - it does get rough from time to time. Sometimes things do get too personal and there are flare ups, as Live365 noted. Especially in Politics and Government topics.
As far as membership 'dwindling', I believe most of the core group is still here, again as Live365 noted. There has been a marked lull in participation, and some of that may be for the reasons you have stated. However, I agree again with Live365 - that most of this is due to a cycle of 'in breathing', or general weariness out there with events in the world. I have noticed many other blogs and forums experiencing a similar 'slow down' effect at this time.
There is a strong diversity of opinion here - and not all of that diversity is expressed in partisan politics.
And, yah - the forum is boring when there are not more posts and posting. The remedy for that is more posting.
Some of us continue to post things, hopefully, of interest - so at least there is something interesting to read and think about. It's true most of this same information is out there on the internet, but it is interesting to snag some of that and post it here. Hopefully that will generate some comment and further interest.
And lastly, 'Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh' are paid 'personalities'.
They are in the profession and out there to rake in the bucks - with of course, their progressive counterparts as well.And actually one more thing. I am disappointed you came with this message which is so generally critical of Fantastic Forum. Speaking for me only - I do not believe it was warranted.
Linnea wrote:
I am disappointed you came with this message which is so generally critical of Fantastic Forum. Speaking for me only - I do not believe it was warranted.
Well, I responded to your request for "honest comments" in your earlier post in this thread.
Sometimes honest feedback is critical in nature, and not always pleasant to read - I have learned from, and had to deal with such feedback myself before. It's hard, but I've grown from it (sometimes more successfully than other times), and in this case offered it because it was requested, and because this thread that I had managed to ignore for a few days had my name on it.
If frank honesty is what you seek, then those words were indeed warranted.
I'll add one more bit of feedback, compare and contrast your two posts here in this thread, they are radically different in nature, tone, and message. I would suggest that one is more reflective, objective, and rooted in reality than the other.
"You'll get used to my babbling, all the others have." - Anna Madrigal from "Tales Of The City" by Armistead Maupin
The Lord Jesus knows how much I love Kaztronic. When I came in and saw a typical, fifteen paragraph Kaz-post, I literally welled up with tears. Geez, I miss that.
But Kaz – and, ironically, Ironsgold and to a lesser extent Biker – were three of the people I’ve alluded to in the past as being “relative newbies” who come in and pontificate about how the place should conduct itself. The difference with these three individuals, is that they stuck out what ever it was and became valued members of the Forum. But they would be three exceptions. You (not YOU, Kaz. You generic) don’t know the dynamic between Cherry Kelly, Corvid and Rombaldi. You weren’t here to see it evolve. You don’t realize that Racehorse and Linnea have been posting together for seven years, and the relationship that they have. You’re not aware of all the complexities involved in the Joe Quinn movement, and how long that’s been going on. You didn’t see the days when this place was assaulted on a weekly basis by a group of two or three lunatics would register and re-register under different nicks and start throwing bombs, and why the “in-crowd” takes immediate action when they see it coming again. Believe me, three years from now (and yes. We’re all still going to be here three years from now), when you see a “relative newbie” come in and say “the place is too biased; who runs this forum?” or “why does that Joolz person think she can speak for Corvid? (based on an actual true story)”, or “why are that Kaztronic-guy’s posts so long?” or even “but I thought Cherry Kelly and Cherry were the same person” (another true story), you will react the way you see people reacting now. Because you’ll be remembering the conversation – the community -- we had today, three years before. Something they weren’t privy too. You’ll feel what I feel. This is my family, and I don’t need late-to-the-party-folks disrespecting that.
As far as this business of being diversity being attacked, that didn’t “just start”, Kaz. And it isn’t just here. I used to watch a soap opera called the “Bold and the Beautiful”. I used to go to a message board for fans of the “Bold and the Beautiful”. The driving force of the “Bold and the Beautiful” is Brooke, who is a beautiful blonde, and Taylor, who is a beautiful brunette, and they are rivals. There are “Brookie’s” and “Tay-fans”…and they fight. Fight. They call each other names, they insult each other’s intelligence and sense of morals, they stalk each other and form gangs to tell each other they aren’t fit to be mothers, or they must be sluts themselves, or maybe they’re “secret lesbos” and that’s why they have that opinion. And then the moderators – of which there are seven – have to come in and lock the thread. These are Characters. On. A Soap Opera. But some of the most vile things I’ve ever seen I saw on that message board about two people who don’t actually exist. People lose their minds on the Internet. Toward that end, it becomes necessary to elucidate what actually constitutes an “attack”. In the Megman incident you cited, the only person who actually “attacked” the guy was myself, and all I really did was ask him what the hell his problem was. It was based on this exchange below:
“Your right and you had nothing to say when Bush was blowing millions, when did you pay taxes in the US ?”
“I don't know who the **** you think you are but you can stick your head back up your ass where it belongs........”
Maybe five different people will read that and see five different things. But because I’m a member of this community, I happen to know that Megman is a guy who works out, and SETIsLady is a genteel woman. If I were at a bar and an overbearing male told a gentle female to stick her head up her a$$, he’d lose a testicle. Being told you’re disagreed with and why doesn’t constitute an attack. Even being questioned on why you feel a certain way doesn’t constitute an attack. Accusations of being a closeted Republican operative for the Bush junta may come close…until you realize it’s Joe Quinn saying it. And since you know the history of Joe Quinn, you understand it. The sensitivity fades with time and knowledge. I can tell by certain aspects of your post that for you, it already has.
As far as these “other forums”, different strokes I guess. Why would I want to post with three hundred other people when I can come in here every day and talk with a dozen of my closest friends? Tell me. On these other forums, has anyone ever started a thread titled “Kaztronic?” to ask where you are? But I can’t talk about the economy anymore. I don’t know what else there is to say. I’m bored of imaginary flu pandemics, airplane bombings that never actually took place, a healthcare bill that will never pass, a woman from Alaska who didn’t even finish the job she was hired for, the pregnant daughter of the woman from Alaska who didn’t even finish the job she was hired for. Obama is the President. There’s no need to argue about it anymore. I know George sucks. I’ve been dealing with the fact that George sucks since 2003. I don’t see why we need entire threads devoted to discussing it. But the result, is that there is nothing much to talk about these days. At least not for me. But when – If? When? – things start happening in this world again, this will be the first place you’ll come. Even if you need a break, don’t stray too far they buoy. And we’ll be here.
But Kaz – and, ironically, Ironsgold and to a lesser extent Biker – were three of the people I’ve alluded to in the past as being “relative newbies” who come in and pontificate about how the place should conduct itself. The difference with these three individuals, is that they stuck out what ever it was and became valued members of the Forum. But they would be three exceptions. You (not YOU, Kaz. You generic) don’t know the dynamic between Cherry Kelly, Corvid and Rombaldi. You weren’t here to see it evolve. You don’t realize that Racehorse and Linnea have been posting together for seven years, and the relationship that they have. You’re not aware of all the complexities involved in the Joe Quinn movement, and how long that’s been going on. You didn’t see the days when this place was assaulted on a weekly basis by a group of two or three lunatics would register and re-register under different nicks and start throwing bombs, and why the “in-crowd” takes immediate action when they see it coming again. Believe me, three years from now (and yes. We’re all still going to be here three years from now), when you see a “relative newbie” come in and say “the place is too biased; who runs this forum?” or “why does that Joolz person think she can speak for Corvid? (based on an actual true story)”, or “why are that Kaztronic-guy’s posts so long?” or even “but I thought Cherry Kelly and Cherry were the same person” (another true story), you will react the way you see people reacting now. Because you’ll be remembering the conversation – the community -- we had today, three years before. Something they weren’t privy too. You’ll feel what I feel. This is my family, and I don’t need late-to-the-party-folks disrespecting that.
As far as this business of being diversity being attacked, that didn’t “just start”, Kaz. And it isn’t just here. I used to watch a soap opera called the “Bold and the Beautiful”. I used to go to a message board for fans of the “Bold and the Beautiful”. The driving force of the “Bold and the Beautiful” is Brooke, who is a beautiful blonde, and Taylor, who is a beautiful brunette, and they are rivals. There are “Brookie’s” and “Tay-fans”…and they fight. Fight. They call each other names, they insult each other’s intelligence and sense of morals, they stalk each other and form gangs to tell each other they aren’t fit to be mothers, or they must be sluts themselves, or maybe they’re “secret lesbos” and that’s why they have that opinion. And then the moderators – of which there are seven – have to come in and lock the thread. These are Characters. On. A Soap Opera. But some of the most vile things I’ve ever seen I saw on that message board about two people who don’t actually exist. People lose their minds on the Internet. Toward that end, it becomes necessary to elucidate what actually constitutes an “attack”. In the Megman incident you cited, the only person who actually “attacked” the guy was myself, and all I really did was ask him what the hell his problem was. It was based on this exchange below:
“Your right and you had nothing to say when Bush was blowing millions, when did you pay taxes in the US ?”
“I don't know who the **** you think you are but you can stick your head back up your ass where it belongs........”
Maybe five different people will read that and see five different things. But because I’m a member of this community, I happen to know that Megman is a guy who works out, and SETIsLady is a genteel woman. If I were at a bar and an overbearing male told a gentle female to stick her head up her a$$, he’d lose a testicle. Being told you’re disagreed with and why doesn’t constitute an attack. Even being questioned on why you feel a certain way doesn’t constitute an attack. Accusations of being a closeted Republican operative for the Bush junta may come close…until you realize it’s Joe Quinn saying it. And since you know the history of Joe Quinn, you understand it. The sensitivity fades with time and knowledge. I can tell by certain aspects of your post that for you, it already has.
As far as these “other forums”, different strokes I guess. Why would I want to post with three hundred other people when I can come in here every day and talk with a dozen of my closest friends? Tell me. On these other forums, has anyone ever started a thread titled “Kaztronic?” to ask where you are? But I can’t talk about the economy anymore. I don’t know what else there is to say. I’m bored of imaginary flu pandemics, airplane bombings that never actually took place, a healthcare bill that will never pass, a woman from Alaska who didn’t even finish the job she was hired for, the pregnant daughter of the woman from Alaska who didn’t even finish the job she was hired for. Obama is the President. There’s no need to argue about it anymore. I know George sucks. I’ve been dealing with the fact that George sucks since 2003. I don’t see why we need entire threads devoted to discussing it. But the result, is that there is nothing much to talk about these days. At least not for me. But when – If? When? – things start happening in this world again, this will be the first place you’ll come. Even if you need a break, don’t stray too far they buoy. And we’ll be here.
Did you ever stop to think, and then forget to start again?
-
Psychicwolf
- Pirate
- Posts: 5999
- Joined: 12-31-2006 12:47 AM
Live365 wrote:
But because I’m a member of this community, I happen to know that Megman is a guy who works out, and SETIsLady is a genteel woman. If I were at a bar and an overbearing male told a gentle female to stick her head up her a$$, he’d lose a testicle.
Great visual.
Dance to heal the earth. Not just when you're dancing, but always. Live the dance, whenever you move, in all you do, dance to heal the earth.
"This was UGLY."
Well, Kaz, since you have been citing examples of our short comings would you care to explain to me the "BEAUTY" of the personal attack on me made by you and hb3 in a thread that I was not even posting on? This was a couple of months ago but I have not forgotten that "BEAUTY". You may have forgotten because memory can be convenient.
If you choose to answer you might regain some bit of my respect. I would think you are able to "man up" and own your comments and perhaps even apologize.
If you, instead, choose to run away again then what can I determine from that action?
Choice is yours.
Well, Kaz, since you have been citing examples of our short comings would you care to explain to me the "BEAUTY" of the personal attack on me made by you and hb3 in a thread that I was not even posting on? This was a couple of months ago but I have not forgotten that "BEAUTY". You may have forgotten because memory can be convenient.
If you choose to answer you might regain some bit of my respect. I would think you are able to "man up" and own your comments and perhaps even apologize.
If you, instead, choose to run away again then what can I determine from that action?
Choice is yours.
Hey Live!
I'm still around! I think I'm just burnt out on politics in general these days, and staying clear of the internet. I've sort of come to the conclusion that no matter who is in power, nothing will ever change. Thank you for your post!
But Linnea is right, this is a ship with many decks, and I'll make a point to support this ship from now on!
Joolz, I haven't watched the new "Lost" yet, so I'm staying away from your thread until I do!
Biker says "Hi" Corvid, and "How's the wing?"
I'm still around! I think I'm just burnt out on politics in general these days, and staying clear of the internet. I've sort of come to the conclusion that no matter who is in power, nothing will ever change. Thank you for your post!
But Linnea is right, this is a ship with many decks, and I'll make a point to support this ship from now on!
Joolz, I haven't watched the new "Lost" yet, so I'm staying away from your thread until I do!
Biker says "Hi" Corvid, and "How's the wing?"
"What fresh hell is this?"
Dorothy Parker
Dorothy Parker
Corvid wrote:
Well, Kaz, since you have been citing examples of our short comings would you care to explain to me the "BEAUTY" of the personal attack on me made by you and hb3 in a thread that I was not even posting on? This was a couple of months ago but I have not forgotten that "BEAUTY". You may have forgotten because memory can be convenient.
I have forgotten the specific incident you are referring to Corvid, but am totally willing to take another look at it and respond accordingly. Can you refresh my memory on the topic or thread so I might locate it and read it again?
Before I even get to that however, I'll say this - I own my words. The good ones, and certainly the bad ones. The body of writing I have put up on this forum speaks in it's own way, and stands as a representation of my thoughts - both good and bad. I'd be lying if I said that I didn't regret plenty of things I've said on this forum, over the thousands of posts - no question. I'd also be lying if I said that it didn't bother me when I upset people (especially those I particularly get along with and care about outside of the forum), it does bother me quite a bit each time it happens as a result of something I wrote that stung. I have a guilty conscience about things like that. I've made plenty of mistakes, and said plenty of ****ty things over the past couple of years - sometimes I think it was probably justified, other times I know that it was not. When called out on it, I try to cool down and take another look at what happened and try to see it from a different perspective to better understand the impact that my words had on a person. When I'm wrong I'll apologize, and I'll try to use it as an experience to grow from and become a better poster.
Long story short, I'll take a look at what I wrote, and if I owe you an apology, you'll get one, because I own my actions, both the good, and the bad.
The words I've written in this thread are with regards to my perceptions of what is wrong with this forum, and represent my own reasons for choosing not to participate here at this time. Agree or disagree - either something is wrong here, or it's not.
If the Forum is slow these days simply because it's a slow news cycle, or something along those lines - if the root cause it external, then once that is corrected it stands to reason that the place will be jumping again. No need to address these types of concerns, all will be well.
On the other hand, if you don't think that scenario is all that realistic and that the reason a bunch of people have either greatly curtailed, or stopped posting altogether is internal - then it needs to be met head on, because maintaining the status quo under those circumstances will just lead this place to become more and more quiet, until eventually it ceases to exist.
Last edited by Kaztronic on 02-04-2010 02:55 PM, edited 1 time in total.
"You'll get used to my babbling, all the others have." - Anna Madrigal from "Tales Of The City" by Armistead MaupinCorvid wrote: "This was UGLY."
Well, Kaz, since you have been citing examples of our short comings would you care to explain to me the "BEAUTY" of the personal attack on me made by you and hb3 in a thread that I was not even posting on? This was a couple of months ago but I have not forgotten that "BEAUTY". You may have forgotten because memory can be convenient.
If you choose to answer you might regain some bit of my respect. I would think you are able to "man up" and own your comments and perhaps even apologize.
If you, instead, choose to run away again then what can I determine from that action?
Choice is yours.
Oh yeah -- that was from the time where you kept insulting me over and over again, in various threads, until I finally started fighting back, and suddenly everything was my fault.
Yeah, I remember that. That was also around the time I started getting emails from ex-members, wondering why I put up with it all....